========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 06:31:32 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sandy Steiner Subject: Um... can I help? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi everybody. It's Sandy, the newbie. I sent the following to Karen Litman, who suggested I post it here. > I've been skimming my backlogged simegen-l posts, and have discovered the > frantic scrambling to move the list. In the face of all this activity, I was > wondering if you have any use for a HTML coder? I don't actually know more > than a smattering of HTML, but I've been wanting to learn and this is a good > incentive for me. To clarify, I'm willing to help with converting stories or whatever to html. I really don't know much html at all, but I'm very good at 'monkey see monkey do' -- if you can show me a page like what you want, I can probably learn to do it. I also have a sharp eye at spotting typos, if anyone cares. I hope the list changeover goes well, I'd hate to lose you folks just as I'm getting to know the S~G world. Cheers, Sandy S SandSteinr@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:11:56 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Um... can I help? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Welcome aboard, Sandy! Don't worry--we will quickly find a way to put you to work. HTML is very, very easy--the basics are obvious, and for the hard stuff you just cut and paste the code from a site you like and then adapt it to your own use. Nope, the code is not copyrighted--that would be like somebody trying to copyright the multiplication tables or the words in a language. Do learn the basics. If you use nothing but a WYSIWYG program, you will be stumped when you want to steal and adapt code. Also, those programs write very fat code--it takes up at least three times the bandwidth it has to, and frequently pulls nasties that, if you can't tell what it's doing, cause you to have to duplicate graphics on a single site. There are plenty of experts here to help you. Good luck! Jean At 06:31 AM 8/1/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hi everybody. It's Sandy, the newbie. I sent the following to Karen Litman, >who suggested I post it here. > > >> I've been skimming my backlogged simegen-l posts, and have discovered the >> frantic scrambling to move the list. In the face of all this activity, I was >> wondering if you have any use for a HTML coder? I don't actually know more >> than a smattering of HTML, but I've been wanting to learn and this is a good >> incentive for me. > >To clarify, I'm willing to help with converting stories or whatever to html. I >really don't know much html at all, but I'm very good at 'monkey see monkey >do' -- if you can show me a page like what you want, I can probably learn to >do it. I also have a sharp eye at spotting typos, if anyone cares. > >I hope the list changeover goes well, I'd hate to lose you folks just as I'm >getting to know the S~G world. > >Cheers, >Sandy S >SandSteinr@xxxxxx.com > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail Aug. 5-10, 1998.*** Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:15:37 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Um... can I help? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Oh yeah Sandy, have a look at http://www.kmtech.com.au/webguide It has tutorials for html and java and places you can go to get things like free counters, domain names, web space, email, and other free stuff :) Of course, everyone else can go there as well if they like! Eliza (Mad Australian Donor) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:47:49 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Um... can I help? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cool, Sandy! Yeah, what Jean said.... I learned how to htmlize by hand......very important because then you can do it in netscape or something else....and yuck....the stuff it does or doesn't do:) you can always pull it up, look at it and say....ah...here's the problem.... it took me about a week to learn it....and with practice it got easier and easier.....even made my kiddo's sit down and do a page so they'd see what it was:) Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother'sl Love May '99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ---------- > From: Jean Lorrah > To: SIMEGEN-L@xxxxxx.EDU > Subject: Re: Um... can I help? > Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 9:11 AM > > Welcome aboard, Sandy! Don't worry--we will quickly find a way to put you > to work. HTML is very, very easy--the basics are obvious, and for the hard > stuff you just cut and paste the code from a site you like and then adapt it > to your own use. Nope, the code is not copyrighted--that would be like > somebody trying to copyright the multiplication tables or the words in a > language. > > Do learn the basics. If you use nothing but a WYSIWYG program, you will be > stumped when you want to steal and adapt code. Also, those programs write > very fat code--it takes up at least three times the bandwidth it has to, and > frequently pulls nasties that, if you can't tell what it's doing, cause you > to have to duplicate graphics on a single site. > > There are plenty of experts here to help you. Good luck! Jean > > > At 06:31 AM 8/1/98 EDT, you wrote: > >Hi everybody. It's Sandy, the newbie. I sent the following to Karen Litman, > >who suggested I post it here. > > > > > >> I've been skimming my backlogged simegen-l posts, and have discovered the > >> frantic scrambling to move the list. In the face of all this activity, I was > >> wondering if you have any use for a HTML coder? I don't actually know more > >> than a smattering of HTML, but I've been wanting to learn and this is a good > >> incentive for me. > > > >To clarify, I'm willing to help with converting stories or whatever to html. I > >really don't know much html at all, but I'm very good at 'monkey see monkey > >do' -- if you can show me a page like what you want, I can probably learn to > >do it. I also have a sharp eye at spotting typos, if anyone cares. > > > >I hope the list changeover goes well, I'd hate to lose you folks just as I'm > >getting to know the S~G world. > > > >Cheers, > >Sandy S > >SandSteinr@xxxxxx.com > > > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu > ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail Aug. 5-10, 1998.*** > Ever stop to think and forget to start again? > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:01:50 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: TECH: New Banner Exchange Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Webmasters, Check out http://www.smartage.com/pc_world_clicks/index.html?src=pcwmedallion1 for a new banner exchange program from PC World, a really major web presence. We will probably want to join this program as well as Link Exchange--have to figure out how to place banners so they are not too obtrusive. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail Aug. 5-10, 1998.*** Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 12:08:58 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: TECH: New Banner Exchange MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > > Webmasters, > > Check out > > http://www.smartage.com/pc_world_clicks/index.html?src=pcwmedallion1 > > for a new banner exchange program from PC World, a really major web > presence. We will probably want to join this program as well as Link > Exchange--have to figure out how to place banners so they are not too > obtrusive. Jean Suggestion: Each site has one or the other BUT NOT BOTH. We have enough range of sites to do this conveniently - without losing potential 'customers'. (There are a LOT of banner exchange programs out there. Each webmaster should - IMO - choose whichever they feel comfortable with. Including the option of 'none'.) Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 06:47:12 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Off to WorldCon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone! I'm about to turn off the computer and head off to visit Jacqueline for a couple of days, and then attend WorldCon. Those of you at the con, be sure to say Hi! And come to the Sime~Gen party! Please don't send me private mail at this address (or jean@xxxxxx.com or keon@xxxxxx.com) until after Aug. 10. I won't get it. I have set the list to Digest, so I can read all the discussion when I get back, but I won't be here to respond to any private mail. If you HAVE to reach me Monday or Tuesday, send me a message c/o Jacqueline, zeor@xxxxxx.net. After that, we will BOTH be at WorldCon and incommunicado via e-mail--although boy, will we ever be communicating in person! See you in eight days! Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail Aug. 5-10, 1998.*** Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 12:25:56 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: New Founding 400 Member MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: I have here a flyer that was distributed (probably by Larry but I don't know) at a convention. It was mailed from Indianapolis, postmarked July 29 -- and it's from Becky Summers -- no email address. These convention flyers are HELPING. When I get back from Worldcon, I've GOT to make time to enter the ones piled up in the folder. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" has been turned in. And I'm almost finished with Cups. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/welcommittee and find out how to get the next Sime~Gen novel! I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 21 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:50:49 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Subject: Re: WEB page - help needed In-Reply-To: <35C2749F.6040D3C5@xxxxxx..au> from "Jenn V." at Aug 1, 98 11:51:27 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenn V. scripsit: > Could folks please let me know if such a thing currently exists, or what > the status is? Current status: not even started, just an intention. > (BTW: John(?), I need your email address so I can point cz-web@xxxxxx.com > to you - if you want it?) Yes, please. . Also change the actual link at simegen.org to . Then I'll set the WebRing to point to my site. -- John Cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 19:15:24 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Hi--this is Jean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I'm using Jacqueline's e-mail because it is up and running. I just arrived at her house for a couple of days before we go on to WorldCon. I spent the flight reading stories and scribbling on them for the writer's workshop, deciding how to restructure the opening of the S~G romance I'm drafting, and taking a nap. But I'm still tired. So good night for now. See you tomorrow. Jean ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:22:54 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Edward Bornstein Subject: NEWS: Books Available. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have been raiding the local used book stores. I'll pass these on for my cost (1/2 cover price) and postage. All are paperbacks, look decent, are complete but aren't perfect by any means. # copies Title Editions Sime~Gen: 1 Mahogany Trinrose Playboy JL: 3 Dushau Questar 3 Farfetch Questar 3 Molt Brother 1 Playboy, 2 Berkley 3 City of a Million Legends Berkley Jean: 3 Savage Empire Playboy 3 Dragon Lord of the SE Playboy Jean's Star Trek: 4 The Vulcan Academy Murders Pocket 12 The IDIC Epidemic Pocket 8 Survivors Pocket (one is coming apart) 2 Metamorphosis Pocket Unrelated books also available: M.A.R. Barker 10 Man of Gold 3 Flamesong Several Tekumel gaming supplements Edward Bornstein 8348-2 Marbach #1253, San Antonio, TX 78227 USA email: button@xxxxxx.com telephone (210) 520-2728 -- "As the _Dying Swan _ spurted from the momship's belly, worldkiller starbombs gestating beneath savage winglets, to featherfall upon the somnolent globe, Li-Hon Auletek, the Living Buddha of the Universal Pacifist Church, parted his lips in a wolverinesque sneer. " My 1997 losing Bulwer-Lytton entry. Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 05:48:18 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: WEB page - help needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Your wrote: ....contact me at Cheryl404@xxxxxx.com That address bounced. Cheryl, if the fan fiction link is going to be working by world con I need the url to put on the pages. If you don't think you can have the page finished by then please let me know asap so that I can add it to the list of other "things to do". Thank you Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 03:40:28 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: WEB page - help needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit email on the way Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother'sl Love May '99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ---------- > From: LadyEliza > To: SIMEGEN-L@xxxxxx.EDU > Subject: Re: WEB page - help needed > Date: Sunday, August 02, 1998 12:48 PM > > Your wrote: > ....contact me at Cheryl404@xxxxxx.com > > That address bounced. > > Cheryl, if the fan fiction link is going to be working by world con I need > the url to put on the pages. > > If you don't think you can have the page finished by then please let me > know asap so that I can add it to the list of other "things to do". > > Thank you > > Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:51:23 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Featured Author MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey guys...guess what...yes, okay....this is rather 'off topic'.... but.....I am the featured author this month on the website of Har/Sil http://www2.romance.net/currentmonth/steeplehill/index.html go have a peek at my book and me:)))) I'm tickled pink:) Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother'sl Love May '99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ---------- > From: Jean Lorrah > To: SIMEGEN-L@xxxxxx.EDU > Subject: Re: makelist problems > Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 5:24 AM > > At 12:27 AM 7/31/98 -0500, Sandra Gray wrote: > >Doesn't Jean Lorrah work at a university? Is there a > >possibility of moving the list there if there is a > >concern about makelist? > > > >Sandra > >sandragray@xxxxxx.net > > Thank you for volunteering me for something I have neither the time nor the > ability to do, Sandra. > > BTW, Murray State hosts listservs only for its own courses and > organizations. Jean > > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu > ***I will be off-line and unavailable by any e-mail Aug. 5-10, 1998.*** > Ever stop to think and forget to start again? > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:07:21 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: Featured Author > > Hey guys...guess what...yes, okay....this is rather 'off topic'.... > > but.....I am the featured author this month on the website of Har/Sil > > http://www2.romance.net/currentmonth/steeplehill/index.html > > go have a peek at my book and me:)))) > > I'm tickled pink:) > woohoo! :) Congratulations, Cheryl! --Robyn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:36:38 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: Re: NEWS: Novel sale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-22 15:35:29 EDT, you write: << Design Image has asked to publish my werewolf novel!! >> ............... Congrats! A definite must-buy. Hang in on the rewrites ... I've only been published in the scientific world .. but the rewrites are such a pain!! Marvelous news! <> ............. What titles did they put out? What are their usual vendors? ...............Again, Congrats! PMN :) ............... "You've got to dance like nobody's watching and love like it's never going to hurt" ............................................................. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:36:39 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: Re: Web Site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-23 11:13:42 EDT, you write: << Does anybody else think that the Digen on the cover of the UZF Playboy pb looks *way* too much like Abe Vigoda? :) --Robyn >> Well, I never liked Green Halimer on MT, Unto's Digen *is* Abe Vigoda .... I picture the Farris sauternine features more thin Jeremy Brett or Dustin Hoffman taller ... I have to put a vote in for RenSime' s sedate cover .... better detail and less Playboy style posing .... I must say the CD cover conveys the tension of the moment best despite the anatomy errors... PMN : ) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:45:01 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: GOSSIP: eeek! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dancer and I lost the use of one of our machines - a key machine which connects us to the net. While we're back online now, it's tenuous. Expect me to be somewhat distracted and/or absent for the next couple of days. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:00:58 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: GOSSIP: eeek! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oh dear..... we're here for you Jennie. Hugs dear Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother'sl Love May '99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ---------- > From: Jenn V. > To: SIMEGEN-L@xxxxxx.EDU > Subject: GOSSIP: eeek! > Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 7:45 PM > > Dancer and I lost the use of one of our machines - a key machine which > connects us to the net. > > While we're back online now, it's tenuous. Expect me to be somewhat > distracted and/or absent for the next couple of days. > > > Jenn V. > -- > It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise > > Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:34:07 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: GOSSIP: eeek! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cheryl Wolverton wrote: > > oh dear..... > we're here for you Jennie. Hugs dear Thanks! Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:57:01 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye n'ha Naomi Subject: Rathorite Harp Camp Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, all... First I want to say that I've been following the discussion of moving the list and the web site(s?) and wish I could help out, but it's totally not the kind of thing you'd want me sticking my tentacles in. I can't grow plants and i can't make heads or tails of this computer stuff other than to use it when other people write it. I had an experience this weekend that was really great, tho. There's a scene in Rensime where Laneff is watching the Rathorite students doing motion exercises, and she wonders what the significance is. I got the feeling that it was related to Shan's nageric characteristics -- the overall discipline he tells Laneff his nager is a side effect of. Saturday at the Bay Area Folk Harp Society's harp camp, we had a rhythm workshop and the instructor was telling us we need to get into the rhythm and FEEL it. We're talking about a "simple" slow beat... about one beat a second. But we were all speeding up and not holding steady. And after having us clap or hit sticks together, she asked us to get up and WALK the rhythm and I flashed on the scene at the Rathor school, and suddenly realized that I WAS feeling the beat, and that there was a really deep difference in my mind and my body, and that the difference was the INTENT. I've spent my life waiting for something wonderful to happen, or longing for something wonderful that did happen, or dreading something awful, or trying to 2nd guess what I did wrong in the past. Then suddenly, I was in the moment. My intent was to walk in the beat "in a sacred manner" as the Navajo prayer says, and it's the same thing Shanlun does when he meditates!!!!! This is really, really neat. That maybe the world, in some obscure way (or maybe even in some obvious way that we're just not looking at at the right angle to notice) is AFFECTED by the attitude and intent with which we clap or step or play an open D chord on a harp! Jacqueline - thank you so much for writing these books. Thank you for Laneff and Shan and all, and Jean, thank you for Risa and Sergei and Kadi and Zeth and Abel. You make the world beautiful. You write in a sacred manner and I'm grateful. All my life's a circle. Harry Chapin Jaye orchestra@xxxxxx.com www.wingedharper.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:53:06 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Margaret Carter Subject: Re: Featured Author Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-03 17:53:46 EDT, Cheryl writes: <> Yay! Congratulations! LL&P, Margaret ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:07:39 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Margaret Carter Subject: Re: NEWS: Novel sale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-03 18:36:55 EDT, PMNewcomb writes: << Hang in on the rewrites ... I've only been published in the scientific world .. but the rewrites are such a pain!! Marvelous news! >> Thanks for the good wishes. The only heavy rewrite I've ever had to do was on my dissertation (hampered by living 3000 miles away from the university). Shudder. I have been awaiting the edited MS with some trepidation. I want to face the "worst" and get started. Oddly, there has been so little work at the "day job" for almost 3 weeks that we contractuals have been left to stay home. Of course the proofreading work will pick up and I'll be needed just when the MS gets here! I have a lingering fear that the requested revisions will make the novel different from the kind of novel I wanted to write -- although the editor emphasized that nothing requested would be "mandatory." They seem to want a fast-paced, rather sensational plot and prose style, whereas I like to read (and write) more leisurely fiction. I'm ready to compromise as much as I reasonably can -- what experiences have the rest of you had with editor- mandated rewrites? I remember that at least one of the S~G novels had to be radically shortened and simplified for publication, isn't that right? Should this question be on "WORK"? LL&P, Margaret ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:57:22 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Goss: out of the loop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok. The folks who are smoffing with me - I'm out of the loop for a couple of days. My sister in law will be induced today if she doesn't go into labour first, & I'm pegged for babysitting duty. (for the child who's two) Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:31:30 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Great news! hehe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just found out I'm listed as a bestseller at amazon.com under religous titles. A Matter of Trust is listed at number 6 and A Fahter's Love is listed at 23 I'm sooooo happy! can't tell you what it was like when my friend contacted me and told me:) Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother'sl Love May '99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 01:02:20 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Veraik ambrov Liorie Subject: Cheryl's Makes 6TH and 23TH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Go to : http://www.2millionbooks.com/books/religion.html Cheryl's books at listed at 6th place and 23rd place. WOW!!!!!! This is incredible NEWS!!!! BIG CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! Eeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cherri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:47:27 -0400 Reply-To: dthompson@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robert & Deborah Thompson Subject: Re: Great news! hehe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cheryl Wolverton wrote: > > I just found out I'm listed as a bestseller at amazon.com under religous > titles. > > A Matter of Trust is listed at number 6 > > and A Fahter's Love is listed at 23 > > I'm sooooo happy! can't tell you what it was like when my friend contacted > me and told me:) > > Cheryl Wolverton > This Side of Paradise Aug 98 > The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 > A Mother'sl Love May '99 > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 Congratulations!!!! That is a wonderful achievement!!!! How many books have you written, anyway? (sort of new to this list) I'm sure both JL's are gonna be tickled pink when they find out! Keep up the great writing! -Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:10:19 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: GOSS: The baby ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ... is born. Healthy, with all appropriate bits & pieces in the appropriate places. 8 pounds 3 & 20cm long. Born just before 9:45 pm 5th August, Brisbane time. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:28:39 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: SMOF: RPG pages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok. I've just come back from NOT-SEEING my nephew born (minding my niece instead), and found my mailbox stuffed with accusations - some of which I am the ONLY recipient so they apparently ARE intended to be accusations at me. So I'm going public with this. I know some people will be irritated with me, but that's the way it is. Ok. There's been the development of the official www.simegen.com top page - a lot of people know that that project was occuring, I'm pretty sure some of that discussion was whole-list discussion. YESTERDAY, JL mentioned that 'it'd be nice to have a roleplay link on the top page'. I mentioned 'if we're going to do that we need to find a page which contains or mentions all the IRC roleplay and the RPG project'. Then I went off and dealt with family stuff. There /is no great conspiracy to ruin anyone's work/ or anything like that - there's a bunch of people doing a rush web page and just accidentally stepping on people's toes. For which I am /sorry/. Now that this is said: Can someone - ANYONE, I don't care who! - make up a roleplay web page which lists - without fear or favour - /a link to every bit of simegen roleplay/? Thank you. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:52:54 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kaas Baichtal Subject: Re: SMOF: RPG pages (FALSE ALARM) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/5/98 8:35:05 AM CDT jenn@xxxxxx.ORG.AU (Jenn V.) writes: << Can someone - ANYONE, I don't care who! - make up a roleplay web page which lists - without fear or favour - /a link to every bit of simegen roleplay/? >> Jenn, that site already exists. http://members.aol.com/tentacled/ircgames.html If you have any suggestions regarding its format or contents, please write to tentacled@xxxxxx.com with your specific requests. A general call that will cause many different people to scramble to throw up duplicate sites is not an effective strategy for dealing with your email problem. --Kaas kaas@xxxxxx.com http://www.baichtal.com/kaas/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:22:34 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Great news! hehe Comments: To: dthompson@xxxxxx.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have two out...my third one will be out in a couple of weeks.....then one out in December and in May:) Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother'sl Love May '99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ---------- > From: Robert & Deborah Thompson > To: SIMEGEN-L@xxxxxx.EDU > Subject: Re: Great news! hehe > Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 4:47 AM > > Cheryl Wolverton wrote: > > > > I just found out I'm listed as a bestseller at amazon.com under religous > > titles. > > > > A Matter of Trust is listed at number 6 > > > > and A Fahter's Love is listed at 23 > > > > I'm sooooo happy! can't tell you what it was like when my friend contacted > > me and told me:) > > > > Cheryl Wolverton > > This Side of Paradise Aug 98 > > The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 > > A Mother'sl Love May '99 > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 > > > Congratulations!!!! That is a wonderful achievement!!!! How many books > have you written, anyway? (sort of new to this list) I'm sure both JL's > are gonna be tickled pink when they find out! Keep up the great > writing! -Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:12:45 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: New Web Site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The new web site is up in time for World Con. http://www.simegen.com To clear up confusion... These pages (the black pages) were writen to capture the interest of people who have never seen or heard of Sime~Gen before, not for the already captured fans (ie. us). For those of you who don't want to go through the animation and the 1st black page everytime you want to look something up, bookmark http://www.simegen.com/fanforum.html That is the location of the list of links that you are use to, same links, new image, easier navigation. By that I mean that when it says "fan fiction" it goes to fan fiction. Likewise with contacts etc. If you feel that there is a site that requirers it's own link rather then being linked to links to links (you know what I mean) send me an email with "I think that whatever needs a link and you can find it on http://www.whatever.hereitis.com/righthere.html The fanforum.html page is setup so that it's easily updated. Topic are put in logical order to cover any subject (Welcome, News, Info, Fiction, Contacts, Misc and Webmaster info) I hope that you enjoy the new (black) pages and also the new navigation to the links. No pages were removed - everything is still there. No code was hurt during the making of this site. Do not spindle or fold. For safety do not eat your monitor. Errrr did I say that? Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:03:07 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Gossamer Subject: Re: SMOF: RPG pages In-Reply-To: <35C85E07.1315E56@xxxxxx..au>; from Jenn Vesperman on Wed, Aug 05, 1998 at 11:28:39PM +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jenn Vesperman wrote: > I've just come back from NOT-SEEING my nephew born (minding my niece > instead), and found my mailbox stuffed with accusations - some of which I > am the ONLY recipient so they apparently ARE intended to be accusations at > me. > So I'm going public with this. I know some people will be irritated with > me, but that's the way it is. Whoever's doing the accusing, you have no IDEA how mad this makes me. Jenn does Good Works Aplenty and doesn't need the stress. A slightly insane, Gossamer -- : Gossamer - gossamer@xxxxxx.net.au - http://tertius.net.au/~gossamer/ : Department of Virtual Tecton Construction (Smof Boards): : http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/boards/ : The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a : little way past them into the impossible. -- Arthur C Clarke ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:45:46 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: New Web Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *Giggle* Yes, Eliza, you did say that. I think it looks nice. However, as I said...I think...since you did say this is to capture NEW people....either we need to put something to let people know about CZ and links to Chanel where the FAQ really is now..etc.... or, on the fan fiction page I am doing...two main links are going to have to be added to those pages...we want them to be able to find general sites as "oh look...an online Fanzine!" etc.....:) Just my two cents.... but as I said....with Robyn's front page and the next page...I think it is out of this world fabulous:) just minor things to adjust...and when are you ever done with that;) Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother'sl Love May '99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ---------- > From: LadyEliza > To: SIMEGEN-L@xxxxxx.EDU > Subject: New Web Site > Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 4:12 AM > > The new web site is up in time for World Con. > > http://www.simegen.com > > To clear up confusion... > > These pages (the black pages) were writen to capture the interest of people > who have never seen or heard of Sime~Gen before, not for the already > captured fans (ie. us). > > For those of you who don't want to go through the animation and the 1st > black page everytime you want to look something up, bookmark > http://www.simegen.com/fanforum.html > > That is the location of the list of links that you are use to, same links, > new image, easier navigation. By that I mean that when it says "fan > fiction" it goes to fan fiction. Likewise with contacts etc. > > If you feel that there is a site that requirers it's own link rather then > being linked to links to links (you know what I mean) send me an email with > "I think that whatever needs a link and you can find it on > http://www.whatever.hereitis.com/righthere.html > The fanforum.html page is setup so that it's easily updated. Topic are put > in logical order to cover any subject (Welcome, News, Info, Fiction, > Contacts, Misc and Webmaster info) > > I hope that you enjoy the new (black) pages and also the new navigation to > the links. > > No pages were removed - everything is still there. No code was hurt during > the making of this site. Do not spindle or fold. For safety do not eat your > monitor. > > Errrr did I say that? > > Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:52:37 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: SMOF: RPG pages (FALSE ALARM) Comments: To: tentacled@xxxxxx.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kaas Baichtal wrote: > Jenn, that site already exists. > http://members.aol.com/tentacled/ircgames.html If you have any suggestions > regarding its format or contents, please write to tentacled@xxxxxx.com with > your specific requests. A general call that will cause many different people > to scramble to throw up duplicate sites is not an effective strategy for > dealing with your email problem. In that case I have even /less/ idea what the emails were about! (BTW: Could Tentacled add a note that a rules-set is being developed for face-to-face Sime~Gen RP - and a link to www.simegen.com/rpg? Thanks.) Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:05:04 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: New Web Site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:45 4/08/98 -0700, you wrote: >*Giggle* > >Yes, Eliza, you did say that. >I think it looks nice. However, as I said...I think...since you did say >this is to capture NEW people....either we need to put something to let >people know about CZ and links to Chanel where the FAQ really is >now..etc.... > Unfortunately, in many clubs and association and other organisations, the tendency to think that "jargon" means the same thing to other people as it does to the members is a mistaken one. People coming in from outside don't know what Companion in Zeor, or Chanel, mean, they are just words. A link to "Fanzines" is a good idea, however the top pages aren't the place for it, it belongs on the fan fiction page. The top pages have to be clear of jargon, foreign terms must be explained and you can't take for granted that a term will be instantly understandable. Transfer, for example, means many different things in our society, the transfer of selyn isn't really one of them! And the term "companion" also has many different meanings, including several sexual ones. "Need" of course has different meanings. Zeor has none and wouldn't be recognised and often terms that aren't recognised are not "seen" by the brain. (which is why that jokes and sexual inuendo will go straight over youngsters heads, thank goodness). By all means use the "jargon" buzz words once people know what they mean, but not on the top pages Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:32:15 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: SMOF: RPG pages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jenn wrote: Can someone - ANYONE, I don't care who! - make up a roleplay web page which lists - without fear or favour - /a link to every bit of simegen roleplay/? It's ok Jenn, Tenticled has done a page that contains links to everyones IRC scenerios and it is up on the link where it should be. I have no idea what the problem was, I seem to be out of that loop. Odd. I'm not sure if the commercial role playing game has a link on that site as it's designated IRC Role Playing, but there is a link on the fan pages for your game. If you want mention on that page contact tenticled. Take care Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:35:43 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Not getting mail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I seem to be missing some of the mail that is going past and as it concerns me I'm, well, concerned. How do I make sure that I'm correctly subscribed to all headings? Was there something further I have to do? Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:42:16 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Not getting mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LadyEliza wrote: > > I seem to be missing some of the mail that is going past and as it concerns > me I'm, well, concerned. > > How do I make sure that I'm correctly subscribed to all headings? Was there > something further I have to do? email simegen-request@xxxxxx.edu in the body of the message put set topics: all (I'm sure Tori will correct me if I'm wrong) Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:42:23 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: GOSS: The baby ... Comments: To: Warren McGaw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Warren McGaw wrote: > > Er... Jenn... Is it a boy or a girl? I'm sure you will have other people > asking the same BTW... > > CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!! > > please give my regards to Greg and his wife. I'm sure everyone's on cloud > nine! > > All the best and hoping that you are both well > Allison Hey, all I cared about was that it was healthy! He's a boy - Joshua Hill-Webber. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:58:03 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cynthia Tenen Subject: Re: New Web Site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Liza, Let me add my kudos to everyone else's. This is *beautiful*. I surf a *lot* of corporate websites, and frankly most of them frustrate me to tears (ugly, too many buttons, too many flashing colors and doodads, and TOO LONG TO LOAD before I get to see the index to get to product information, or whatever it is I'm going there for). But the new www.simegen.com is the *best* of a pro site -- clean lines, good timing on the animation, all information presented intelligently, esthetically, and with no fuss at all. It's *very* attractive. I for one am very grateful indeed that someone with this much talent, experience, and good esthetic judgement *volunteered* their expert help. THANK YOU LIZA! Now, y'all, go enjoy Worldcon. Cynthia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 00:34:47 -1000 Reply-To: Torun@xxxxxx.net Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: David and/or Torun Almer Organization: Starfire Retreat Bed and Breakfast, Kailua-Kona, HI Subject: Lisa Warner e-mail address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Lisa Warner, Are you still lwarner@xxxxxx.net ? My last message to you bounced yesterday. Torun Torun@xxxxxx.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 02:03:35 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Zoe Farris Subject: Word From JL Comments: cc: LadyEliza , Sandra Gray , Sandy Steiner , "WiseSnake@aol.com" , Cheryl Wolverton , Donald Jaramillo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5CA6F4A7AF82079BF0486AB0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5CA6F4A7AF82079BF0486AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit List folk, (I have also Cced this to others as i have not recieved simegen mail for some time and don't know why.) If there is a problem could someone get this out to others, and let me know. Ta muchly. The following is a IM message that I got from JL this morning at 1.45 Aussie time. She asked me to post it to the list. For those who don’t use AOL instant message, Jacqueline is “AmbrovZeor” and I’m AussieSime” I haven’t bothered to edit it and she only had ten minutes on the machine, soi kept quiet. Stay safe, Stay Strong. Zoe Farris. --------------5CA6F4A7AF82079BF0486AB0 Content-Type: application/msword; name="AmbrovZeor.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="AmbrovZeor.doc" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAALQAAAAAA AAAAEAAALwAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAACwAAAD///////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ///////////////////////////////////spcEARwAJDAAAABK/AAAAAAAAEAAAAAAABAAA +BAAAA4AYmpiao7ZjtkAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJBBYAHiYAAOyzAQDsswEA+AwAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD//w8AAAAAAAAAAAD//w8AAAAAAAAAAAD//w8A AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAF0AAAAAAJYAAAAAAAAAlgAAAJYAAAAAAAAAlgAAAAAAAACWAAAA AAAAAJYAAAAAAAAAlgAAABQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKoAAAAAAAAAqgAAAAAAAACqAAAAAAAAAKoA AAAAAAAAqgAAAAwAAAC2AAAAFAAAAKoAAAAAAAAAkwEAALYAAADWAAAAAAAAANYAAAAAAAAA 1gAAAAAAAADWAAAAAAAAANYAAAAAAAAA1gAAAAAAAADWAAAAAAAAANYAAAAAAAAAWAEAAAIA AABaAQAAAAAAAFoBAAAAAAAAWgEAAAAAAABaAQAAAAAAAFoBAAAAAAAAWgEAACQAAABJAgAA 9AEAAD0EAACAAAAAfgEAABUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAlgAAAAAAAADWAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADWAAAAAAAAANYAAAAAAAAA1gAAAAAAAADWAAAAAAAAAH4BAAAAAAAA +AAAAAAAAACWAAAAAAAAAJYAAAAAAAAA1gAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANYAAAAAAAAA1gAAAAAA AAD4AAAAAAAAAPgAAAAAAAAA+AAAAAAAAADWAAAAIgAAAJYAAAAAAAAA1gAAAAAAAACWAAAA AAAAANYAAAAAAAAAWAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAqgAAAAAAAACqAAAAAAAAAJYA AAAAAAAAlgAAAAAAAACWAAAAAAAAAJYAAAAAAAAA1gAAAAAAAABYAQAAAAAAAPgAAABgAAAA +AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFgBAAAAAAAAlgAAAAAAAACWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWAEAAAAAAADWAAAA AAAAAMoAAAAMAAAAQKqjDBvCvQGqAAAAAAAAAKoAAAAAAAAA+AAAAAAAAABYAQAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYUuDUFtYnJv dlplb3I6IEkgbmVlZCB0byB0YWxrIHRvIHlvdQ1BdXNzaWVTaW1lOiBHb29kIE1vcm5pbmcu DUFtYnJvdlplb3I6IExvZyB0aGlzIHRvIHJlcG9zdCB0byB0aGUgbGlzdA1BbWJyb3ZaZW9y OiBJIGhhdmUgMTAgbWludXRlcyBvbiB0aGlzIG1hY2hpbmUNQXVzc2llU2ltZTogb2suDUF1 c3NpZVNpbWU6IGdvLg1BbWJyb3ZaZW9yOiBKZWFuLCBKTCBhbmQgQW5uZSBnb3QgdG8gY29u IGxhdGUsIGJ1dCBjb25uZWN0ZWQgYW5kIGFsbCBzdXBwbGllcyBhbmQgcG9zdGVycyBldGMg YXJlIHNldCBmb3JvIHRoZSBwYXJ0eS4gIFRoZSBCdXR0b25zIGFyZSBhIGhpdCAtLXRoaXMg aXMgYSBjdXJ2ZWQga2V5Ym9hcmQgYW5kIEkgY2FuJ3QgdHlwZSBvbiBpdC4NQW1icm92WmVv cjogU0cgUSZBIHB1bGxlZCBhIGJ1bmNoIG9mIGVudGh1c2lhc3RpYyBmZW4gd2hvIGFyZSBu b3Qgb24gdGhlIGxpc3QNQW1icm92WmVvcjogV2UgaGF2ZSB0aGUgZmx5ZXJzIGFuZCBhcmUg cGFzc2ludCB0aGVtIG91dC4gIFRoZSBvbmVzIGZvciB0aGUgZnJlZWJpZSB0YWJsZSBkaWRu J3QgbWFrZSBpdCwgYnV0IHdlIGhhdmUgYSBESVNQTEFZIGluIHRoZSBmcmVlYmllIGFyZWEu DUFtYnJvdlplb3I6IEhhdmUgcHJvZ3Jlc3Mgb24gdGhlIHNpbWVnZW4uY29tIEtFT04gRU1Q T1JJVU0gcHJvamVjdCBhbmQgdGhlIGhhcmR3YXJlIHNlYXJjaCBwcm9qZWN0IGFuZCB0aGUg YWR2ZXJ0aXNpbmcgcHJvamVjdC4gIEplYW4gYW5kIEkgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGJyYWluc3Rvcm1p bmcgc3RvcnkgbWF0ZXJpYWwgbGlrZSBjcmF6eSwgYW5kIGJ1c2luZXNzIHN0dWZmIHRvby4g IFNoZSdzIGdvdCBhIG1lZXRpbmcgd2l0aCBoZXIgYWdlbnQgdGhpcyBhZnRuLg1BbWJyb3Za ZW9yOiBCdXR0b25zIGFyZSBhdCBMYXJyeSdzIHRhYmxlLg1BbWJyb3ZaZW9yOiBXaGF0IGhh dmUgSSBmb3Jnb3R0ZW4gdG8gc2F5Pw1BdXNzaWVTaW1lOiA/DUFtYnJvdlplb3I6IE9oLCB0 aGVyZSBhcmUgMzIgbWFjaGluZXMgaGVyZSwgMiBjb25uZWN0ZWQgdG8gQU9MIGJ5IGEgbWly YWNsZSAtLSBhbmQgdGhleSdyZSBhbG1vc3QgYWx3YXlzIGZ1bGwgd2l0aCBhIHdhaXRpbmcg bGluZS4NQXVzc2llU2ltZTogSWYgeW91IGxpa2UgaSBjYW4gYmUgYXdha2UgdGhpcyB0aW1l IHRvbW9ycm93IGFzIHdlbGwuDUFtYnJvdlplb3I6IEkndmUgYmVlbiB0ZWxsaW5nIGZvbGtz IHdobyBib3VnaHQgdGhlIGJ1dHRvbnMgdG8gYWR2ZXJ0aXNlIHRoZSBuZXcgdG9wIHBhZ2Ug ZW50cnkuICBBTkQgSSBmb3VuZCAzIGZlbiB0byBzZWxsIGJ1dHRvbnMgdG8gLSBvbmUgb2Yg d2hpY2ggcmVhZHMgb3VyIHdlYnNpdGVzIEFUIFdPUksgYW5kIGxvdmVzIHRoZSBmaWN0aW9u IGZpeCBidXQgaXNuJ3Qgb24gdGhlIGxpc3QuICANQW1icm92WmVvcjogV2UgaGF2ZSBhIGxv dCBvZiB3ZWJzaXRlIGZhbnMgd2hvIGFyZSBub3Qgb2ZmaWNpYWxseSBpbiB0b3VjaCB3aXRo IHVzLg1BdXNzaWVTaW1lOiBjb29sDUFtYnJvdlplb3I6IElmIGFueW9uZSBjaGVja3MgaW4g d2l0aCB0aGUgTGlzdCB0b21vcnJvdywgaXQgd291bGQgYmUgSmVhbiBhbmQgVEhJUyBBT0wg bWV0aG9kIGlzIGZhc3RlciBhbmQgZWFzaWVyIGJlY2F1c2UgdGhlIG90aGVyIG1hY2hpbmVz IGhhdmUgdG8gYmUgY29uZmlndXJlZCB0byBkbyBlbWFpbCBhbmQgdGhlIHRlbG5ldCBzeXN0 ZW0gaXNuJ3Qgd29ya2luZyB3ZWxsLiAgSSdtIGxvb2tpbmcgYXQgdHdvIGd1eXMgaW4gU1Qg dW5pZm9ybXMgd2FpdGluZyBpbiBsaW5lLiAgDUF1c3NpZVNpbWU6IGxvbCB+fndpc2ggaSB3 ZXJlIHRoZXJlIH5+DUFtYnJvdlplb3I6IFNvIG1heWJlIHdlJ2xsIGhhdmUgdGltZSB0byBy ZXBvcnQgb24gU3VuZGF5IGJ1dCBJJ3ZlIGFkZGVkIGEgVGFyb3QgdGhpbmcgdG8gbXkgU3Vu ZGF5IHNjaGVkdWxlLiAgDUFtYnJvdlplb3I6IFRoZXkganVzdCBzYXQgZG93biBhdCB0aGUg QU9MIG1hY2hpbmUgYmVzaWRlIG1lIQ1BdXNzaWVTaW1lOiB3ZWxsIGknbGwgYmUgdXAganVz dCBpbiBjYXNlLg1BbWJyb3ZaZW9yOiBBbnl3YXksIHdlIG1heSBoYXZlIGEgS2VvbiBFbXBv cml1bSBwcm9qZWN0IGluIHBsYXkgd2l0aGluIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIHdlZWtzIGFmdGVyIHdl IGdldCBiYWNrIGJ1dCB3ZSBhcnJpdmVkIHNvIGJ1cm5lZCBvdXQgZXhoYXVzdGVkIHRoYXQg d2UncmUgZHJhZ2dpbmcgYXJvdW5kIHRoZSBjb24uDUFtYnJvdlplb3I6IFNhdyBMZWlnaCBL aW1tZWwgYXQgdGhlIHdyaXRlcidzIHdvcmtzaG9wIC0tIG5vdCBpbiBteSBzZWN0aW9uLiAg SmVhbiBkaWQgaGVyIHNlY3Rpb24gYWxyZWFkeSB0b28uICBHb29kIHdyaXRlcnMgY29taW5n IHVwLiAgSSd2ZSBnaXZlbiBvdXQgZmx5ZXJzIGZvciB0aGUgd3JpdGVyJ3Mgd29ya3Nob3Au ICANQXVzc2llU2ltZTogSSBob3BlIHlvdSBhbGwgaGF2ZSBhIGdyZWF0IHRpbWUuDUFtYnJv dlplb3I6IFRoZSBtYWhjaW5lcyB3ZSd2ZSBnb3QgaGVyZSBhcmUgbm90IHRvcCBvZiB0aGUg bGluZSwgYW5kIG5vdCB1c2luZyB0aGUgbGF0ZXN0IG5ldHNjYXBlLCBidXQgd2UgZGlkIGdl dCB0aGUgYW5pbWF0aW9uIHRvIHJ1bi4gIFRoZSB1bmRlciBwYWdlcyBhcmUgZ3JlYXQsIGJ1 dCB0aGUgZW1haWwgZHJvcCBkaWRuJ3Qgd29yayBiZWNhdXNlIHlvdSBoYXZlIHRvIGNvbmZp Z3VyZSB0aGUgYnJvd3NlciBhbmQgZW1haWwgc29mdHdhcmUgLQ1BdXNzaWVTaW1lOiBEb2gu DUFtYnJvdlplb3I6IFdlJ3JlIHdvcmtpbmcgaGFyZC4gIEplYW4ganVzdCB3ZW50IG9mZiB0 byBhIHBhbmVsLCBidXQgSSB3YW50ZWQgeW91IGFsbCB0byBrbm93IHRoYXQgdGhpbmdzIGFy ZSBoYXBwZW5pbmcgLS0gYW5kIGFsbCdzIHdlbGwgYW5kIG9uIHNjaGVkdWxlLCBhbmQgeW91 ciBXT1JLIGlzIGJlaW5nIGFwcHJlY2lhdGVkLg1BbWJyb3ZaZW9yOiBJcyB0aGUgU0lVIGxp c3Qgc3RpbGwgcnVubmluZz8NQXVzc2llU2ltZTogSSB0aGluayBzbywgaSBoYXZlbid0IGhh ZCBhIHBvc3RpbmcgZm9yIHNvbWUgdGltZS4NQXVzc2llU2ltZTogSSB0aG91Z2h0IGl0IG1p Z2h0IGp1c3QgYmUgcXVpdGUuDUF1c3NpZVNpbWU6IGFuZCBpIGhhdmVuJ3QgYmVlbiBvbiBs b25nIHRoaXNtb3JuaW5nIGVpdGhlci4NQXVzc2llU2ltZTogMS40NWFtIGhlcmUuDUFtYnJv dlplb3I6IE9LIEknbGwgY2hlY2sgd2l0aCB5b3UgU3VuZGF5IElGIFdFIENBTi4gIE9yIG1h eWJlIEFubmUgd2lsbC4gIEkndmUgZ290IHRvIGdvLiAgTG9nIHRoaXMgYW5kIHBvc3QgaXQg cGxlYXNlLiAgSkwNQW1icm92WmVvcjogYnllDUF1c3NpZVNpbWU6IGdvb2QgYnllLg0AAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAA+BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAQAEAAAZBAAAOwQAAFUEAACABAAArgQAAL4EAADOBAAAjwUAAN0FAABxBgAA dwcAAKEHAADLBwAA2QcAAFwIAACfCAAAggkAANUJAADmCQAA+goAACELAACQCwAAzQsAAPcL AACtDAAAaQ0AAJcNAACaDgAAqw4AAP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAA AAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA/QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP0AAAAA AAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAdAAQAABkEAAA7BAAAVQQAAIAE AACuBAAAvgQAAM4EAACPBQAA3QUAAHEGAAB3BwAAoQcAAMsHAADZBwAAXAgAAJ8IAACCCQAA 1QkAAOYJAAD6CgAAIQsAAJALAADNCwAA9wsAAK0MAABpDQAAlw0AAJoOAACrDgAAaQ8AAJQP AADTDwAAARAAADwQAABVEAAA0hAAAOIQAAD4EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAACarDgAAaQ8AAJQPAADTDwAAARAAADwQAABVEAAA0hAAAOIQAAD4EAAA/QAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAA AAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD9AAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAACRwAH7CCLiCwxkEhsAgHIrAIByOQ oAUkkKAFJbAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAEgAPAAoAAQBbAA8AAgAAAAAAAAAoAABA8f8CACgAAAAGAE4AbwByAG0AYQBsAAAA AgAAAAgAQ0oYAG1ICQwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA8AEFA8v+hADwAAAAWAEQAZQBmAGEA dQBsAHQAIABQAGEAcgBhAGcAcgBhAHAAaAAgAEYAbwBuAHQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgM AAAEAAAmAAAAAP////8ABAAA+BAAAA8AAAAABAAAqw4AAPgQAAAQAAAAEgAAAAAEAAD4EAAA EQAAAAAAAAAZAAAAzgYAAM8GAAD3DAAA+gwAAAcABQAHAAUABwD//wIAAAAKAFoAbwBlACAA RgBhAHIAcgBpAHMAIQBDADoAXABXAEkATgBEAE8AVwBTAFwARABlAHMAawB0AG8AcABcAEEA bQBiAHIAbwB2AFoAZQBvAHIALgBkAG8AYwD/QAOAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAi5hAABAAEAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAIQAAAAAAAAAPgMAABAAAAIAEAAAAMAAABHFpABAAACAgYDBQQFAgMEAwAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAVABpAG0AZQBzACAATgBlAHcAIABSAG8AbQBhAG4AAAA1 FpABAgAFBQECAQcGAgUHAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIAAAAAAUwB5AG0AYgBvAGwAAAAz JpABAAACCwYEAgICAgIEAwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAQQByAGkAYQBsAAAAIgAE APEIiBgAANACAABoAQAAAABsQCjGcUAoxgAAAAABAAQAAADgAQAAsQoAAAEABQAAAAQAAxAW AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAFkCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKUGwAe0ALQAgAASMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIQ0AAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAACAAAAAAD//xIAAAAAAAAAFwAmICYgJiAmICYgJiAmICYgJiAmICYgJiAmICYgJiAm ICYgJiAmICYgJiAmICYgAAAAAAAACgBaAG8AZQAgAEYAYQByAHIAaQBzAAoAWgBvAGUAIABG AGEAcgByAGkAcwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP7/ AAAEAAIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAADghZ/y+U9oEKuRCAArJ7PZMAAAAHABAAAQAAAA AQAAAIgAAAACAAAAkAAAAAMAAACwAAAABAAAALwAAAAFAAAA0AAAAAcAAADcAAAACAAAAPAA AAAJAAAABAEAABIAAAAQAQAACgAAACwBAAAMAAAAOAEAAA0AAABEAQAADgAAAFABAAAPAAAA WAEAABAAAABgAQAAEwAAAGgBAAACAAAA5AQAAB4AAAAYAAAAhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWF hYWFhYUAHgAAAAEAAAAAhYWFHgAAAAsAAABab2UgRmFycmlzAIUeAAAAAQAAAABvZSAeAAAA CwAAAE5vcm1hbC5kb3QAhR4AAAALAAAAWm9lIEZhcnJpcwCFHgAAAAIAAAAxAGUgHgAAABMA AABNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCA4LjAAhUAAAAAAGA2PAAAAAEAAAAAAYP8xGsK9AUAAAAAAvs/k GsK9AQMAAAABAAAAAwAAAOABAAADAAAAsQoAAAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD+/wAABAACAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAtXN1ZwuGxCTlwgAKyz5rkQAAAAF1c3VnC4bEJOXCAArLPmu VAEAABABAAAMAAAAAQAAAGgAAAAPAAAAcAAAAAUAAACMAAAABgAAAJQAAAARAAAAnAAAABcA AACkAAAACwAAAKwAAAAQAAAAtAAAABMAAAC8AAAAFgAAAMQAAAANAAAAzAAAAAwAAADwAAAA AgAAAOQEAAAeAAAAEwAAAGRpc2Fzc29jaWF0aW9uIGluYwAgAwAAABYAAAADAAAABQAAAAMA AAAhDQAAAwAAALMNCAALAAAAAAAAAAsAAAAAAAAACwAAAAAAAAALAAAAAAAAAB4QAAABAAAA GAAAAIWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYWFAAwQAAACAAAAHgAAAAYAAABUaXRsZQADAAAA AQAAAAAAmAAAAAMAAAAAAAAAIAAAAAEAAAA2AAAAAgAAAD4AAAABAAAAAgAAAAoAAABfUElE X0dVSUQAAgAAAOQEAABBAAAATgAAAHsAMQA4AEYANQBDAEIAOAAwAC0AMgBFADYAMgAtADEA MQBEADIALQBCAEIARQBBAC0ANAA0ADQANQA1ADMANQA0ADAAMAAwADAAfQAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAIAAAADAAAABAAAAAUA AAAGAAAABwAAAAgAAAAJAAAACgAAAAsAAAAMAAAADQAAAA4AAAAPAAAAEAAAABEAAAASAAAA EwAAAP7///8VAAAAFgAAABcAAAAYAAAAGQAAABoAAAAbAAAA/v///x0AAAAeAAAAHwAAACAA AAAhAAAAIgAAACMAAAD+////JQAAACYAAAAnAAAAKAAAACkAAAAqAAAAKwAAAP7////9//// LgAAAP7////+/////v////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////9SAG8AbwB0ACAARQBuAHQAcgB5AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFgAFAf//////////AwAAAAYJAgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA wBdeBRvCvQEgujoNG8K9ATAAAACAAAAAAAAAADEAVABhAGIAbABlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOAAIB/////wUAAAD///// AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAVwBvAHIA ZABEAG8AYwB1AG0AZQBuAHQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAABoAAgEBAAAA//////////8AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAHiYAAAAAAAAFAFMAdQBtAG0AYQByAHkASQBuAGYAbwByAG0AYQB0AGkAbwBuAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKAACAQIAAAAEAAAA/////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABwAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAUARABvAGMAdQBtAGUAbgB0AFMA dQBtAG0AYQByAHkASQBuAGYAbwByAG0AYQB0AGkAbwBuAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA4AAIB//////// ////////AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAJAAAAAAQAAAAAAAA AQBDAG8AbQBwAE8AYgBqAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAABIAAgD///////////////8AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAagAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP///////////////wAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ////////////////AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAQAAAP7///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////8BAP7/AwoAAP////8GCQIAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGGAAAAE1pY3Jvc29mdCBXb3JkIERvY3VtZW50AAoAAABNU1dvcmREb2MAEAAAAFdv cmQuRG9jdW1lbnQuOAD0ObJxAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAA== --------------5CA6F4A7AF82079BF0486AB0-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:58:54 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Captain Button Subject: Re: Word From JL In-Reply-To: <35CB2552.EF677304@xxxxxx..au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Zoe Farris wrote: > List folk, (I have also Cced this to others as i have not recieved > simegen mail for some time and don't know why.) If there is a problem > could someone get this out to others, and let me know. Ta muchly. Since a lot of the listmembers are at the Worldcon, that reduces traffic. And then the "The list is quiet because everyone is at Worldcon" becomes a self fufilling prophecy. -- "As the _Dying Swan _ spurted from the momship's belly, worldkiller starbombs gestating beneath savage winglets, to featherfall upon the somnolent globe, Li-Hon Auletek, the Living Buddha of the Universal Pacifist Church, parted his lips in a wolverinesque sneer. " My 1997 losing Bulwer-Lytton entry. Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:17:23 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Word From JL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Simegen-l is still working. I've been set for "all topics" and I get mail. The list is quiet because a great deal of people are at worldcon so the activity lessens -- especially when JL and Jean are not easily accessible though the list. You will find the same thing happening in November for Darkover....whether it is the existing list or any other we will have. Kind regards, Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 15:23:02 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: JL's message (in case you couldn't read it) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thought you would like it in print ----- Karen Litman AmbrovZeor: I need to talk to you AussieSime: Good Morning. AmbrovZeor: Log this to repost to the list AmbrovZeor: I have 10 minutes on this machine AussieSime: ok. AussieSime: go. AmbrovZeor: Jean, JL and Anne got to con late, but connected and all supplies and posters etc are set foro the party. The Buttons are a hit --this is a curved keyboard and I can't type on it. AmbrovZeor: SG Q&A pulled a bunch of enthusiastic fen who are not on the list AmbrovZeor: We have the flyers and are passint them out. The ones for the freebie table didn't make it, but we have a DISPLAY in the freebie area. AmbrovZeor: Have progress on the simegen.com KEON EMPORIUM project and the hardware search project and the advertising project. Jean and I have been brainstorming story material like crazy, and business stuff too. She's got a meeting with her agent this aftn. AmbrovZeor: Buttons are at Larry's table. AmbrovZeor: What have I forgotten to say? AussieSime: ? AmbrovZeor: Oh, there are 32 machines here, 2 connected to AOL by a miracle -- and they're almost always full with a waiting line. AussieSime: If you like i can be awake this time tomorrow as well. AmbrovZeor: I've been telling folks who bought the buttons to advertise the new top page entry. AND I found 3 fen to sell buttons to - one of which reads our websites AT WORK and loves the fiction fix but isn't on the list. AmbrovZeor: We have a lot of website fans who are not officially in touch with us. AussieSime: cool AmbrovZeor: If anyone checks in with the List tomorrow, it would be Jean and THIS AOL method is faster and easier because the other machines have to be configured to do email and the telnet system isn't working well. I'm looking at two guys in ST uniforms waiting in line. AussieSime: lol ~~wish i were there ~~ AmbrovZeor: So maybe we'll have time to report on Sunday but I've added a Tarot thing to my Sunday schedule. AmbrovZeor: They just sat down at the AOL machine beside me! AussieSime: well i'll be up just in case. AmbrovZeor: Anyway, we may have a Keon Emporium project in play within a couple of weeks after we get back but we arrived so burned out exhausted that we're dragging around the con. AmbrovZeor: Saw Leigh Kimmel at the writer's workshop -- not in my section. Jean did her section already too. Good writers coming up. I've given out flyers for the writer's workshop. AussieSime: I hope you all have a great time. AmbrovZeor: The mahcines we've got here are not top of the line, and not using the latest netscape, but we did get the animation to run. The under pages are great, but the email drop didn't work because you have to configure the browser and email software - AussieSime: Doh. AmbrovZeor: We're working hard. Jean just went off to a panel, but I wanted you all to know that things are happening -- and all's well and on schedule, and your WORK is being appreciated. AmbrovZeor: Is the SIU list still running? AussieSime: I think so, i haven't had a posting for some time. AussieSime: I thought it might just be quite. AussieSime: and i haven't been on long thismorning either. AussieSime: 1.45am here. AmbrovZeor: OK I'll check with you Sunday IF WE CAN. Or maybe Anne will. I've got to go. Log this and post it please. JL AmbrovZeor: bye AussieSime: good bye. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:25:09 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: List: (was: Word From JL) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karen Litman wrote: > > The Simegen-l is still working. I've been set for "all topics" and I get > mail. The list is quiet because a great deal of people are at worldcon so the > activity lessens -- especially when JL and Jean are not easily accessible > though the list. You will find the same thing happening in November for > Darkover....whether it is the existing list or any other we will have. Kind > regards, Karen Litman One of my jobs this weekend is to install the free version of listserv on the machine I'm currently using as 'simegen.com'. People: I have a very recent list of email addresses from the simegen list (thank you Leigh). When the siu.edu list goes down, I will email everyone with the new list address & instructions on how to set yourself for digest mode. So /we won't lose the simegen list/. We'll just change addresses. And we have a backup plan. If I don't manage to successfully install listserv before SIU goes down, we'll use a mailing list Cheryl found for us. So while it all sounds dire "is the mailing list still working?", it isn't. It just necessitated some behind-the-scenes smoffing. Jenn V. (anyone who is worried you may not be on the recent list of email addresses - well, if you don't get an email, check http://www.simegen.com/. We'll probably put the list migration info there.) -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:41:39 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Zoe Farris Subject: Re: Word From JL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Karen, and Cpt Button, for letting me know. I'm sorry if i sounded a bit panicy. I have seen the list quite before but that's the first time i've not seen anything at all. Eeiry. I hope those i emailed privately forgive me for the intrusion. Saty Safe, Stay Strong. Zoe Farris. Karen Litman wrote: > The Simegen-l is still working. I've been set for "all topics" and I get > mail. The list is quiet because a great deal of people are at worldcon so the > activity lessens -- especially when JL and Jean are not easily accessible > though the list. You will find the same thing happening in November for > Darkover....whether it is the existing list or any other we will have. Kind > regards, Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 00:11:01 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: Word From JL MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII SI>Since a lot of the listmembers are at the Worldcon, that reduces SI>traffic. And then the "The list is quiet because everyone is at SI>Worldcon" becomes a self fufilling prophecy. I am really confused here. I thought Worldcon was held over Labor Day weekend. Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 06:19:41 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Word From JL In-Reply-To: <01J0CAD4QQJ2908SFE@xxxxxx.com> from "Chantal Whittington" at Aug 8, 98 00:11:01 am Content-Type: text > SI>Since a lot of the listmembers are at the Worldcon, that reduces > SI>traffic. And then the "The list is quiet because everyone is at > SI>Worldcon" becomes a self fufilling prophecy. > > I am really confused here. I thought Worldcon was held over Labor Day > weekend. Normally, it is. This year, though, the Baltimore group wasn't able to get the convention center over the Labor Day weekend, so they had to hold it now. (This is not entirely bad, since I get to show up at another convention normally held at L.A. on the Labor Day Weekend [Strategicon, a gaming convention].) There was a very funny handout someone did the first day that explains all of this as a secret Illuminati plot to spoil the Worldcon... Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 10:56:28 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: Re: Future of the list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-28 20:10:39 EDT, you write: << launching a push to get the books reprinted -- probably with all new covers, and I wanted to use the List to discuss COVERS. >> That's great news! Don't sweat the changes ... people follow shows to new networks, and they get discovered by new batchs of potential fans on new networks..... so will we .... PMN ....................."You've got to dance like nobody's looking and love like it's never going to hurt"........................ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 10:56:35 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: Re: Quick servey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-30 01:16:55 EDT, you write: << If you use a text only browser please specify that. >> Home = text only browser Work = can see everything PMN : ) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 10:56:25 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: Re: Trek on SciFi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-28 19:02:43 EDT, you write: << But I don't recall the color being that -- un-graduated, non-shaded, two- dimentional. It looks colorized. >> ST was always in color. First season had bolder lights and deeper shades ... then second season had marvelous pastel schemes and a richer "pallet" of shades ... "Companion" and "Journey to Bable" are good examples of the pastels ... "Wolf In the Fold" of the darker tones.... Splashes of color from lights is also a budget saving technique (until you get to Spielbergien levels of light like "ET") ... I'm ashamed to say I've forgotten the name of the "Director of Photography" type job on the series, or who did it, but I've always loved second season for it.... PMN ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 10:56:34 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: Re: Future of the list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-28 20:30:20 EDT, you write: << I for one would be willing to add a little money to the pot --- Karen Litman >> I also can .... and would be willing ... PMN ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:00:31 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: Word From JL MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 8-AUG-1998 09:26:51.1 SIMEGEN-L said to AERDEN SI>> I am really confused here. I thought Worldcon was held over Labor Day SI>> weekend. SI>Normally, it is. This year, though, the Baltimore group wasn't able SI>to get the convention center over the Labor Day weekend, so they SI>had to hold it now. (This is not entirely bad, since I get to SI>show up at another convention normally held at L.A. on the Labor SI>Day Weekend [Strategicon, a gaming convention].) SI>There was a very funny handout someone did the first day that SI>explains all of this as a secret Illuminati plot to spoil the SI>Worldcon... Tony--ROFL!!! Oh, that sounds hilarious! Well, at least I don't have to worry that I've fallen into a time wary. :) Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:26:06 -0700 Reply-To: "Donald R. Jaramillo" Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Donald R. Jaramillo" Subject: Re: Quick servey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where did this quick survey come from? I never received a copy. Am I missing mail after all? Puzzled.... Don Jaramillo ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org http://www.stattenfield.org/don/ ICQ: 2869199 -----Original Message----- From: PM Newcomb To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Saturday, August 08, 1998 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Quick servey >In a message dated 98-07-30 01:16:55 EDT, you write: > ><< If you use a text only browser > please specify that. >> > >Home = text only browser >Work = can see everything > >PMN : ) > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:51:46 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Anne Pinzow Subject: News from Worldcon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone, I'm writing from the Worldcon and only have 10 minutes to report on what has been happening. There are quite a few of our fen here, Donna Halper, Leigh Kimmel, Larry Urley just to name a few. The Sime~Gen party that they threw drew in quite a few people and many new people entered the Sime~Gen Name the Villian contest. Also, Jean read her new short story and received a standing ovation. Whether this had to do with the fact that the room was packed and not that many people had room to sit down is besides the point. Everyone was clapping loudly. By the way, you can enter the contest by going to http://www.simegen.com. The enterance way to the site is beautiful and is working well. We are selling buttons hands over tentacles so thank you to all of the button design people. Many people have been stopping us asking about the t-shirts. In fact one person followed me from the convention center to the hotel to tell me how that hand on my chest terrified her, "where can I buy the shirt?" I told her to go look at simegen.com. Another few people came up to me early one morning and said, "oh my g-d, that's terrifying." It was early and I was thinking that that they were talking about me. No, they were talking about the shirt. We are coming closer to the possibility of having reprints of all JLs old Sime~Gen books and also of the Farris Channel. Bookstores have all said that they'd carry it. Also, we're investigating have the books available electronically. Things are moving along also for the movie but that is still very hush hush. All in all, except for Jacqueline, Jean and I getting lost for an hour in Baltimore (the map was upside down and the streets all go one way, the wrong way) and the convention losing all our advance flyers (but I brought a whole bunch of others) and the events being spread out all over the city (well, it's good excercise) we are all having a good time but sincerely wishing that everyone could be here. Readya, Anne ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:15:13 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Word From JL In-Reply-To: <01J0CZ4S0IZM908PGC@xxxxxx.com> from "Chantal Whittington" at Aug 8, 98 12:00:31 pm Content-Type: text > On 8-AUG-1998 09:26:51.1 SIMEGEN-L said to AERDEN > SI>> I am really confused here. I thought Worldcon was held over Labor Day > SI>> weekend. > SI>Normally, it is. This year, though, the Baltimore group wasn't able > SI>to get the convention center over the Labor Day weekend, so they > SI>had to hold it now. (This is not entirely bad, since I get to > SI>show up at another convention normally held at L.A. on the Labor > SI>Day Weekend [Strategicon, a gaming convention].) > SI>There was a very funny handout someone did the first day that > SI>explains all of this as a secret Illuminati plot to spoil the > SI>Worldcon... > > Tony--ROFL!!! Oh, that sounds hilarious! It gets even better. The suggested _reasons_ for the Illuminati doing this include: -- To avoid the new mellow Harlan Ellison becoming Guru of Chocolate -- To keep Jerry Pournelle's ability to walk on water from cleaning out the shallow end of the gene pool when all the idiots try to imitate him --and --To keep all of Jacqueline Lichtenberg's femme-friends around with all their psi-power (enough to keep the Psychic Friends Network going for another four years.) Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:50:40 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Edward Bornstein Subject: Re: Word From JL In-Reply-To: <199808081915.MAA21756@xxxxxx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [ snip ] >> SI>There was a very funny handout someone did the first day that >> SI>explains all of this as a secret Illuminati plot to spoil the >> SI>Worldcon... [ snip ] >It gets even better. The suggested _reasons_ for the Illuminati doing >this include: [ snip ] > --To keep all of Jacqueline Lichtenberg's femme-friends around with > all their psi-power (enough to keep the Psychic Friends Network > going for another four years.) Keep them around? How so? Would a Labor Day Worldcon be too close to the Equinox and cause such a concentration of Psis to transcend to the next plane of existance or something? [ Pictures a room full of Organian-type energy beings in Kaas's T-Shirts ] [ Runs off to look up the planetary configuration for Darkover ] -- "As the _Dying Swan _ spurted from the momship's belly, worldkiller starbombs gestating beneath savage winglets, to featherfall upon the somnolent globe, Li-Hon Auletek, the Living Buddha of the Universal Pacifist Church, parted his lips in a wolverinesque sneer. " My 1997 losing Bulwer-Lytton entry. Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:12:07 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sandra Gray Subject: Re: JL's message (in case you couldn't read it) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:23 08/07/1998 EDT, you wrote: >Thought you would like it in print ----- Karen Litman > Thanks, Karen. I'm using an old machine and couldn't read it (and the second copy of it wouldn't even download the first time). Sandra sandragray@xxxxxx.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 04:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Lisa W Subject: Re: Lisa Warner e-mail address Comments: To: David and/or Torun Almer In-Reply-To: <35CAD847.18FB@xxxxxx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII yeppers!!! Nothing changed in that respect. Hugs all around! Lisa And I even wrote to you!!! Smile. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 09:46:08 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Bruce Gray Subject: Other cons? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi! I know everyone isn't even back from Worldcon yet, but are there any plans for any other major cons such as Dragon*Con (the one in Atlanta) or others? Bruce lbrucegray@xxxxxx.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:52:25 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Other cons? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruce Gray wrote: > > Hi! > > I know everyone isn't even back from Worldcon yet, but are there any > plans for any other major cons such as Dragon*Con (the one in Atlanta) > or others? There's always a Sime~Gen presence at Darkover Grand Council - and I'll be there this year. (November, Timonium in Maryland) Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:44:45 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: News from Worldcon MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Man...Makes me wonder how far off the mainstream my thinking is. I just think of a hand with tentacles as a Sime's hand. Isn't it fascinating to get the first-hand experience of seeing how 'Gens' think? Eerie, eh? Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:11:37 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Edward Bornstein Subject: Re: Other cons? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980809094608.007a42e0@xxxxxx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hi! > >I know everyone isn't even back from Worldcon yet, but are there any >plans for any other major cons such as Dragon*Con (the one in Atlanta) >or others? > >Bruce >lbrucegray@xxxxxx.net When is Dragon*Con? I'll be moving to Georgia from Texas in Oct or Nov. I'll be at Armadillocon 20 in Austin Texas, Aug 28-30. -- "As the _Dying Swan _ spurted from the momship's belly, worldkiller starbombs gestating beneath savage winglets, to featherfall upon the somnolent globe, Li-Hon Auletek, the Living Buddha of the Universal Pacifist Church, parted his lips in a wolverinesque sneer. " My 1997 losing Bulwer-Lytton entry. Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:09:39 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Edward Bornstein Subject: NEWS: More from JL at WorldCon. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just talked with JL at worldcon. Transcript below. Lightly edited to remove irrelevant stuff. Tell me by private email if this comes through in a messed up lines format and I'll repost it with shorter lines ---- Begin Transcript ---- AmbrovZeor (12:44 PM): Philadelphia won the bid for 2001. Since Anne's report yesterday, we have taken several steps closer to getting both hardcopy reprints of the 8 novels available AND getting them available on the Web for free download!!! And even if you download it free, we get a tiny little bit of money (a few pennies but what the hey). Many people will THEN go buy the hardcopy from Amazon.com, we're sure. Plus because of all thisk, we're closer to a contract for the Farris Channel -- but we didn't get as many signups for the 400 and the contest as we expected at the con --- I've been told a number of times that the people wanted to take the flyer home and think about their villain name. AmbrovZeor (12:47 PM): We are exhausted but very happy with the results of all this, and are going home with immense amounts of work to do on S~G and all 3 of us, Anne, Jean and me -- know that there will be lots of emergencies waiting for us at home. But I know that ASAP I've got to start writing the Farris Channel (at last!!!) because it will become part of the re-issue program of the other novels. Lots of time will be spent on contract negotiations and agreements etc. etc. -- and writing time will be very hard to come by. I still have 3 Tarot books to do, you know, and the Farris Channel -- and my column, and all the fanfic projects, and we've found someone to manage the commercial website on simegen.com to sell our books there. CptButton (12:50 PM): actually, what is this about a reissue contract? I saw a preliminary mention, but nothing about a done deal. AmbrovZeor (12:51 PM): It's not yet a done deal, but the discussion is now getting down to contract terms and designing the program and all kinds of tech stuff to do with publishing. CptButton (12:51 PM): Is this publishing on paper or on the net? AmbrovZeor (12:53 PM): Both on paper and on the net as an integrated program linked into the movie and everything else, including the board game. That's what makes it all so complicated -- we're designing the marketing push for the franchise. It will take TIME. We leave here tomorrow morning, and it may be Wednesday before I download email! AmbrovZeor (12:53 PM): I'm weeding my AOL mailbox so it won't overflow until I can get to it. Just got another Founding400 by email. ---- End of Transcript ---- -- "As the _Dying Swan _ spurted from the momship's belly, worldkiller starbombs gestating beneath savage winglets, to featherfall upon the somnolent globe, Li-Hon Auletek, the Living Buddha of the Universal Pacifist Church, parted his lips in a wolverinesque sneer. " My 1997 losing Bulwer-Lytton entry. Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:03:32 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: theresa sorrell Subject: Re: Other cons? Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Bubonicon is being held the last weekend in August here in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It looks like that's going to be a busy con weekend in this part of the world. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:38:48 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Other cons? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I believe in planing ahead :) From what I hear WorldCon will be held in Melbourne Australia next year. Anyone comeing? Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:31:24 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: Other cons? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit theresa sorrell wrote: > > Bubonicon is being held the last weekend in August here in Albuquerque, > New Mexico. It looks like that's going to be a busy con weekend in > this part of the world. Bubonicon? Not Bubonic Plaque? :) -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:30:29 GMT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jeff Zeitlin Organization: None To Speak Of Subject: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just checked out the simegen.com site - looks very nice. I also discovered that, while I have all eight novels published to date, only four of them have the covers shown on the page. I assume that the others were the HB covers, where I have the PB? One comment about the site - the white-on-black is a bad choice, if there's no alternative pages - if someone tries to print one of those pages, since most browsers don't print background colors or graphics by default, they'll most likely get white-on-white. An alternate set of pages with different colors would be a good thing to think about. -- Jeff Zeitlin jeff.zeitlin@xxxxxx.execnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 00:42:11 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: simegen.com web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >One comment about the site - the white-on-black is a bad choice, >if there's no alternative pages - if someone tries to print one >of those pages, since most browsers don't print background colors >or graphics by default, they'll most likely get white-on-white. >An alternate set of pages with different colors would be a good >thing to think about. The stupidity of Netscape still astonishes me :) Yes, you are right. I don't know why anyone would want to print out what is on the black pages - but as netscape isn't smart enough to do as it should, I will put up alternatives. Thank you Jeff Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:49:22 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Other cons? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LadyEliza wrote: > > I believe in planing ahead :) > > >From what I hear WorldCon will be held in Melbourne Australia next year. > Anyone comeing? > > Eliza I've been told I am. Actually, there's likely to be a bunch of us from Brisbane - might be worth piling into a car or a hired minibus & heading down. Anyone planning to come from the States, check with us Brisbane folk - you may wish to crash on someone's couch up here for a bit of a holiday (& flight recovery) then come on down with us. BTW: do NOT forget to check whether you need a visa! Your travel agent will know, as will the Australian Embassy (there's a web page - check 'embassies' in Yahoo - and you can email them to ask) Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:56:14 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Zeitlin wrote: > > Just checked out the simegen.com site - looks very nice. I also > discovered that, while I have all eight novels published to date, > only four of them have the covers shown on the page. I assume > that the others were the HB covers, where I have the PB? The covers were the 'pick the one in best condition' covers I have on my bookshelf, scanned and emailed to Eliza. They are: Doubleday Hardbacks: First Channel Channel's Destiny Unto Zeor Forever Mahogany Trinrose Rensime Daw Paperbacks: Ambrov Keon Zelerod's Doom Playboy Paperbacks: House of Zeor > One comment about the site - the white-on-black is a bad choice, > if there's no alternative pages - if someone tries to print one > of those pages, since most browsers don't print background colors > or graphics by default, they'll most likely get white-on-white. > An alternate set of pages with different colors would be a good > thing to think about. I find white-on-black difficult to read for any length of time. We had to do a rush job, and decided that - for the sake of getting /something/ suitable up - we'd only pick faults in things we found to be fatal errors. HOWEVER: Now that Worldcon is over, we /intend/ to do a rework - hopefully after Eliza has had a chance to get her paying work done! So I'm writing down suggestions like this one & we'll include them in the rework planning stage. :) Thank you, Jeff. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:27:32 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Gossamer Subject: Re: Other cons? In-Reply-To: <35CE97F2.C40D3DFD@xxxxxx..au>; from Jenn Vesperman on Mon, Aug 10, 1998 at 04:49:22PM +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jenn Vesperman wrote: > LadyEliza wrote: > > I believe in planing ahead :) > > >From what I hear WorldCon will be held in Melbourne Australia next year. > > Anyone comeing? > I've been told I am. > Actually, there's likely to be a bunch of us from Brisbane - might be worth > piling into a car or a hired minibus & heading down. Mememe! I live here! :) Gossamer -- : Gossamer - gossamer@xxxxxx.net.au - http://tertius.net.au/~gossamer/ : Department of Virtual Tecton Construction (Smof Boards): : http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/boards/ : Pain is a thing of the mind. The mind can be controlled. : -- Spock, ST:TOS ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:24:31 -0700 Reply-To: "Donald R. Jaramillo" Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Donald R. Jaramillo" Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The newer versions of Netscape allow the printing of backgrounds, but in any case, Netscape has allowed overriding colors and printing text and/or lines as black for some time. Namaste! Don Jaramillo ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org http://www.stattenfield.org/don/ ICQ: 2869199 -----Original Message----- From: LadyEliza To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 7:49 PM Subject: Re: simegen.com web site >>One comment about the site - the white-on-black is a bad choice, >>if there's no alternative pages - if someone tries to print one >>of those pages, since most browsers don't print background colors >>or graphics by default, they'll most likely get white-on-white. >>An alternate set of pages with different colors would be a good >>thing to think about. > >The stupidity of Netscape still astonishes me :) > >Yes, you are right. I don't know why anyone would want to print out what >is on the black pages - but as netscape isn't smart enough to do as it >should, I will put up alternatives. > >Thank you Jeff > >Eliza > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 06:28:55 -0700 Reply-To: "Donald R. Jaramillo" Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Donald R. Jaramillo" Subject: Re: Other cons? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I won't be going, but I do have a request of all of those who are going to attend Aussiecon. Please, please, please vote for San Francisco in 2002! :-) I'm considering getting a voting membership in addition to going to NASFiC that year. Having a WorldCon less than an hour's drive from home is not an opportunity to miss! Hopefully, Don Jaramillo ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org http://www.stattenfield.org/don/ ICQ: 2869199 -----Original Message----- From: LadyEliza To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 2:47 PM Subject: Re: Other cons? >I believe in planing ahead :) > >From what I hear WorldCon will be held in Melbourne Australia next year. >Anyone comeing? > >Eliza > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:18:06 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Donald R. Jaramillo wrote: > The newer versions of Netscape allow the printing of backgrounds, but in any > case, Netscape has allowed overriding colors and printing text and/or lines > as black for some time. Unfortunately not. You can set default text, background, visited-link and unvisited-link colors (for me: black, white, red, blue respectively), but checking the box "Always use ..." does *not* affect text color set with the FONT element or similarly. Thus, white text (and, very nearly, yellow text as well) is quite invisible to me. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:46:05 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Maureen Gibbins Subject: help with newsletter In-Reply-To: <224e27fb.35cc671e@xxxxxx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Joanne and I are in the midst of reviving the newsletter and in our conversations we decided that we would like to have certain regular features in the newsletter. Some of these will be impossible without your help. We would like convention announcements AND reviews. If you're going to a convention, please let one of us know - or announce it to the list and we'll gather it from there. Give us the particular details of the con - when, where, how to register, and if you have a S~G gathering scheduled. Other gatherings (if you want want new people to attend) would also be great. The Australian contingent seems to really have it together. If you've been to a convention or gathering, write it up. I've really enjoyed reading messages about both - I'll have a new appreciation for descriptions of running through forests! I'd also like to include a list of recommended books, movies, TV shows, web sites [title, author (or producer/director/creator), and two or three lines about it]. Also - we're trying to come up with some boiler plate to include in each newsletter (in case it is the first newsletter that someone receives) that lists four or five essential websites (like the Welcommittee) that people should know about. Which sites do you think should be included? Thanks. You can reach me at mgibbins@xxxxxx.sdsu.edu Joanne can be reached at jds2@xxxxxx.com Take care. Maureen "The joy in life is in its diversity and the ways in which our differences combine to create meaning and beauty." - Star Trek Maureen P. Gibbins e-mail: mgibbins@xxxxxx.sdsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:30:26 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sylvia Engdahl Subject: Re: simegen.com web site In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980810004136.006db1dc@xxxxxx..au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've just looked at the site -- it's nice! But I noticed on the FAQ page that you mention "abe.com" as a source of used copies. Their domain is actually abebooks.com -- abe.com is an unrelated company. Also, I question recommending amazon.com as a place to find used books since their prices on them are exorbitant -- much higher than sites like abebooks.com and interloc.com that list what dealers have in stock, since they are a search service (they buy from other dealers and add a big markup. Amazon.com recently quoted a reader a price of $125 for one of my books, at least twice what other dealers are now asking for it.) They are good only as a last resort if one is willing to pay for their finding a used book through offline sources. Sylvia ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ** New edition of my Star Trilogy coming in 2000 from Meisha Merlin! ** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Sylvia Engdahl - Eugene, Oregon Visit my Website! sengdahl@xxxxxx.com http://www.teleport.com/~sengdahl/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:52:35 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: TECH SMOF: Good news! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just found, installed and tested a search engine which /does index geocities/ - at least, it seems to. It is NOT up for general use - the machine I installed it on doesn't have enough disk space for me to go ahead and get everything up & running & live - but it DOES do the hardest part of the job - actually, reliably (I hope), draw down geocities pages. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:49:42 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Donald V., Sally A. or Tracy M. Thurber" Subject: What Dreams May Come MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A short while back, someone was inquiring about this novel, which is soon to be a movie, as well. An embryonic website exists at, funnily enough, http://www.whatdreamsmay.com/. Tor is reprinting the book to coincide with the release of the film. They both do look appealing, I must admit. TMT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:35:51 -0400 Reply-To: nova@xxxxxx.net Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Nova Subject: Re: News from World Con MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From: Anne Pinzow >Many people have been stopping us asking about the t-shirts. >In fact one person followed me from the convention center to the hotel >to tell me how that hand on my chest terrified her, "where can I buy >the shirt?" I told her to go look at simegen.com. Another few people >came up to me early one morning and said, "oh my g-d, that's >terrifying." It was early and I was thinking that that they were >talking about me. No, they were talking about the shirt. >Man...Makes me wonder how far off the mainstream my thinking is. I >just think of a hand with tentacles as a Sime's hand. Isn't it >fascinating to get the first-hand experience of seeing how 'Gens' >think? Eerie, eh? > Chantal Hrrlumph! How Gens think indeed. How could one be afraid of a poor creature that just can't help itself? ;) On another topic, It was nice to be at world con and the SG party. I enjoyed getting to see some of the faces behind the posts. It inspired me to attempt to get to Darkover again. Nova Gen chauvinist and proud of it! ..."OK you Simes, we'll get along fine as soon as you realize I'm GOD!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:20:01 -0700 Reply-To: Donald Jaramillo Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Donald Jaramillo Subject: Re: What Dreams May Come MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Donald V., Sally A. or Tracy M. Thurber To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 11:19 AM Subject: What Dreams May Come >A short while back, someone was inquiring about this novel, which is soon to be a >movie, as well. An embryonic website exists at, funnily enough, >http://www.whatdreamsmay.com/. Tor is reprinting the book to coincide with the >release of the film. They both do look appealing, I must admit. That was me! I first read the book some 15 years ago, and I remember it being VERY VERY good! There is more at the fan site, http://www.socuda.com/rwilliams/future/dreams.html . I just wish I didn't have to wait until October, the planned release date of the new edition. The movie is supposed to premier October 2. Follow Your Bliss! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:36:14 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: M C Arens Subject: Re: browsers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>>>Thus, white text (and, very nearly, yellow text as well) is quite invisible to me.<<<< Helpful hint: try blocking the text. This usually reverses the color and can make it easier to read. Mary arensmc@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:26:43 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Time to Turn off the Computer when... Comments: cc: helen.roulston@xxxxxx.edu, rallen@xxxxxx.EdU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>IT'S TIME TO TURN YOUR COMPUTER OFF & READ A BOOK WHEN . . . >> >>1.You wake up at 3 am to go to the bathroom and stop to check your E-mail >>on the way back to bed. >>2.You name your children Eudora, AOL and dotcom. >>3.You turn off your modem and get this awful empty feeling, as if you >>just pulled the plug on a loved one. >>4.You spend half of the plane trip with your laptop on your lap...and >>your child in the overhead compartment. >>5 You decide to stay in college for an additional year or two, just for >>the free Internet access. >>6.You laugh at people with 14.4-baud modems. >>7.You start using smileys in your snail mail. >>8.You find yourself typing "com" after every period when using a word >>processor.com >>9.You can't call your mother...she doesn't have a modem. >>10.You check your mail. It says "no new messages." So you check it again. >>11.You don't know what gender three of your closest friends are, because they have neutral screennames and you never bothered to ask. >>12.You move into a new house and decide to Netscape before you Landscape. >>13.You tell the cab driver you live at >>http://1000.edison.garden/house/brick.html >>14.You start tilting your head sideways to smile. >>15.After reading this message, you immediately e-mail it to a friend!!! (and I did!) Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:22:08 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Book Placing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Guess what? My second book has moved up from number Twenty-five to number Thirteen on Amazon's bestseller's list. And my first book is still up at number 6. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:07:04 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Book Placing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cheryl Wolverton wrote: > My second book has moved up from number Twenty-five to number Thirteen on > Amazon's bestseller's list. > > And my first book is still up at number 6. It's interesting also to note the Amazon Sales Rank, which reflects where it stands in the ranking of total copies sold by Amazon.com itself: _A Father's Love_ ranks 431,578, meaning that 431,577 books have sold more copies at Amazon.com. (Of course, it's pretty new.) _A Matter Of Trust_ ranks 160,336. (My own book, _The Complete Lojban Language_, ranks 172,834, just for the shen of it.) -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:35:22 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Book Placing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yep, which I don't consider bad if you consider their stock of books is 2.5 million:)))))) -----Original Message----- From: John Cowan To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 11:10 AM Subject: Re: Book Placing >Cheryl Wolverton wrote: > >> My second book has moved up from number Twenty-five to number Thirteen on >> Amazon's bestseller's list. >> >> And my first book is still up at number 6. > >It's interesting also to note the Amazon Sales Rank, which reflects >where it stands in the ranking of total copies sold by Amazon.com itself: > >_A Father's Love_ ranks 431,578, meaning that 431,577 books have sold >more copies at Amazon.com. (Of course, it's pretty new.) >_A Matter Of Trust_ ranks 160,336. > >(My own book, _The Complete Lojban Language_, ranks 172,834, just >for the shen of it.) > >-- >John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org > You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. > You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. > Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:18:08 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Book Placing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:22 PM 8/12/98 -0700, Cheryl wrote: >Guess what? > >My second book has moved up from number Twenty-five to number Thirteen on >Amazon's bestseller's list. > >And my first book is still up at number 6. Fantastic! Congratulations, Cheryl! You obviously have what the romance fans want--and that's not luck. It takes hard work. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:35:28 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Book Placing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Jean.... I still think it was luck....right time...right place....plus the publisher has a good distribution area....it tickles me to see them in wal mart and k-mart.... but this is only for amazon....which really freaks me that people are ordering online:) of course, if I were going to order...amazon is where I'd order.... barnes and noble...this is soooo funny....the books are in the opposite order.... and according to my publisher book two did better than book one. -----Original Message----- From: Jean Lorrah To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:18 PM Subject: Re: Book Placing >At 12:22 PM 8/12/98 -0700, Cheryl wrote: >>Guess what? >> >>My second book has moved up from number Twenty-five to number Thirteen on >>Amazon's bestseller's list. >> >>And my first book is still up at number 6. > >Fantastic! Congratulations, Cheryl! > >You obviously have what the romance fans want--and that's not luck. It >takes hard work. Jean > > >Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu >Ever stop to think and forget to start again? >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:50:12 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: New Sales MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just got a call from my agent! Guess what? I just sold three more books to my new editor!! I'm sooooo tickled. And we actually got a better deal on this contract!!!! My new editor....I mean new...this is her first multi-contract book:))))) bounce;;;;;))))))) Cheryl Wolverton This SIde of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 -----Original Message----- From: Jean Lorrah To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:28 AM Subject: Time to Turn off the Computer when... >>>IT'S TIME TO TURN YOUR COMPUTER OFF & READ A BOOK WHEN . . . >>> >>>1.You wake up at 3 am to go to the bathroom and stop to check your >E-mail >>>on the way back to bed. >>>2.You name your children Eudora, AOL and dotcom. >>>3.You turn off your modem and get this awful empty feeling, as if you >>>just pulled the plug on a loved one. >>>4.You spend half of the plane trip with your laptop on your lap...and >>>your child in the overhead compartment. >>>5 You decide to stay in college for an additional year or two, just for >>>the free Internet access. >>>6.You laugh at people with 14.4-baud modems. >>>7.You start using smileys in your snail mail. >>>8.You find yourself typing "com" after every period when using a word >>>processor.com >>>9.You can't call your mother...she doesn't have a modem. >>>10.You check your mail. It says "no new messages." So you check it >again. >>>11.You don't know what gender three of your closest friends are, >because they have neutral screennames and you never bothered to ask. >>>12.You move into a new house and decide to Netscape before you >Landscape. >>>13.You tell the cab driver you live at >>>http://1000.edison.garden/house/brick.html >>>14.You start tilting your head sideways to smile. >>>15.After reading this message, you immediately e-mail it to a friend!!! >(and I did!) > >Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu >Ever stop to think and forget to start again? >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:15:28 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Zoe Farris Subject: Sime Bowling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ELIZA: On Tuesday night I went down to Brisbane to watch my channel, Zoe Farris, bowl (league bowling - competition). I would have been going down anyway as it is "that time of the month" again (ie. one month since our "hunt" in the forest - time for transfer) and she needed my support. It worked - she won 2 out of the 3 games, and at a higher score then she has ever reached before. She wants me to go down whenever she plays competition now! Down the far end there were a group of UNI students bowling. Drunk as skunks and twice as smelly! I pointed out that, the way they were falling down on a regular basis, there was possibly some channeling (healing) work to be done (such a good companion, always looking for work for my channel). Zoe, however, said "I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot tenticle!" That being the case, when I found that another member of the team had a headache I immediatly let Zoe know. How was I to know the woman was a Sime Phobe? However, Zoe, in her wonderful calming way, explained to the woman what she was going to do and the woman allowed her to do so (the headache appearently being worse then the fear). Zoe then had some healing work to do on my hand after the woman held it so tight that I'm sure there was major bone crushing type damage! What fun :) ZOE: yes, having my campanion around was indeed vey benificial to my bowling, 143 in two games and 113 in another.(very good scores for me) i have discovered that Eliza's ancastory must have been Madagascan, (thank's Jean). At one stage Eliza noticd her shoe lace undone, and she looked at me puppy dog eyes and then at her shoe. I automatically leant over and started doing it up before I realised I had moved. Mmmmmmm. I wonder what made me do that. Also, not being used to having a Gen around all the time I have come to the conclusion that I need to stock up my kitchen. I have only encountered one other Simephobe before and was surprised when Chas reacted the way she did to her massage, she nearly lept into Eliza's arms in fright. Lucky I wasn't making any lateral contact or I'd have died where i stood, and that's no good for the bowling team's efforts to win. Ahhhhh. i also found out why Simes don't sleep long hours. it's not matabalism (well yes it is) but it's also gens staying awake all night, just because i kept talking to her didn't mean she had to keep answering. :) ELIZA: Next weekend it's the Abbey Museum Medieval Tournament. The Abbey Museum is exactly that - an old stone Abbey (yes, religious) that has a Medieval Tournament every year to raise funds for the Museum that they run. It's not a bad little Museum either, and is appearently suppose to be haunted or something. They have interesting things in there. As well as the usual pots and jars and Queen Victoria's shoe, they have the foot from an Egyptian Mummy. (I am always tempted to see if it fits in Queen Vicies shoe, but they won't let me.) Zoe is coming to that too. We will probibly tell you about that afterwards :) Until then.... Stay Safe, Stay Strong Hajene Zoe Farris Eliza, companion to Hajene Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:20:29 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Subject: Re: New Sales In-Reply-To: <005001bdc654$550cd9e0$0411d7d1@xxxxxx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cheryl wrote: >I just got a call from my agent! >Guess what? I just sold three more books to my new editor!! >I'm sooooo tickled. And we actually got a better deal on this contract!!!! >My new editor....I mean new...this is her first multi-contract book:))))) >bounce;;;;;))))))) Ekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!! WOW!!!! THIS is SOOOOOO fantastic! NOw hurry up and write it! I'm DYING to read this one. I know a little about this one and it is going to be WONDERFUL!!!!!! HUGS to all Cherri aka Veraik ambrov Liorie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:39:26 -0400 Reply-To: cindy@xxxxxx.co.uk Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cynthia Stoner Subject: Re: New Sales MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congrats!!!! Cheryl Wolverton wrote: > I just got a call from my agent! > > Guess what? I just sold three more books to my new editor!! > > I'm sooooo tickled. And we actually got a better deal on this contract!!!! > > My new editor....I mean new...this is her first multi-contract book:))))) > bounce;;;;;))))))) > > Cheryl Wolverton > This SIde of Paradise Aug 98 > The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 > A Mother's Love May 99 > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean Lorrah > To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 6:28 AM > Subject: Time to Turn off the Computer when... > > >>>IT'S TIME TO TURN YOUR COMPUTER OFF & READ A BOOK WHEN . . . > >>> > >>>1.You wake up at 3 am to go to the bathroom and stop to check your > >E-mail > >>>on the way back to bed. > >>>2.You name your children Eudora, AOL and dotcom. > >>>3.You turn off your modem and get this awful empty feeling, as if you > >>>just pulled the plug on a loved one. > >>>4.You spend half of the plane trip with your laptop on your lap...and > >>>your child in the overhead compartment. > >>>5 You decide to stay in college for an additional year or two, just for > >>>the free Internet access. > >>>6.You laugh at people with 14.4-baud modems. > >>>7.You start using smileys in your snail mail. > >>>8.You find yourself typing "com" after every period when using a word > >>>processor.com > >>>9.You can't call your mother...she doesn't have a modem. > >>>10.You check your mail. It says "no new messages." So you check it > >again. > >>>11.You don't know what gender three of your closest friends are, > >because they have neutral screennames and you never bothered to ask. > >>>12.You move into a new house and decide to Netscape before you > >Landscape. > >>>13.You tell the cab driver you live at > >>>http://1000.edison.garden/house/brick.html > >>>14.You start tilting your head sideways to smile. > >>>15.After reading this message, you immediately e-mail it to a friend!!! > >(and I did!) > > > >Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu > >Ever stop to think and forget to start again? > >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 > >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:34:44 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: New Sales In-Reply-To: <005001bdc654$550cd9e0$0411d7d1@xxxxxx.net> from "Cheryl Wolverton" at Aug 12, 98 05:50:12 pm Content-Type: text Cheryl wrote: > Guess what? I just sold three more books to my new editor!! > > I'm sooooo tickled. And we actually got a better deal on this contract!!!! Congratulations! Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:36:49 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Janice K Hrubes Subject: Re: New Sales Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Congratulations! Felicitations, And to borrow from the vernaculat... You Go Girl! Janice ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:57:42 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Margaret Carter Subject: Re: New Sales Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I << Cheryl wrote: >I just got a call from my agent! >Guess what? I just sold three more books to my new editor!! >> Yayy! Congrats, Cheryl! LL&P, Margaret ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:11:55 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: 20MB Free Websites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's a place offering HUGE free websites, as long as they are not commercial. Check it out. Jean FORTUNE CITY - BREAKING NEW GROUND ---------------------------------- Looking for a place to hang your hat in cyberspace? FortuneCity is now offering a whopping 20 MEGABYTES of space for you to create a personal website. That's almost double the storage space offered by any of the other freebie sites I know of, and it should give you plenty of room to stash photos, clipart and sound files. Visit here to get the details of the new 20MB Fortune City offering: FortuneCity - http://www.adz.net/fc345.html Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:05:19 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: New Sales MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cheryl wrote: > I just got a call from my agent! > Guess what? I just sold three more books to my new editor!! >> Well done. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:14:29 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: New Sales Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wow, Cheryl--you are really going places! Congratulations! Jean At 05:50 PM 8/12/98 -0700, Cheryl wrote: >I just got a call from my agent! > >Guess what? I just sold three more books to my new editor!! > >I'm sooooo tickled. And we actually got a better deal on this contract!!!! > > >My new editor....I mean new...this is her first multi-contract book:))))) >bounce;;;;;))))))) Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 00:58:43 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: 20MB Free Websites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you want to know more free websites, also free emails, free counters, free java script, free domains and other free stuff have a look at http://www.kmtech.com.au/webguide Eliza Companion to Hajene Zoe Farris At 21:11 12/08/98 -0500, you wrote: >Here's a place offering HUGE free websites, as long as they are not >commercial. Check it out. Jean > >FORTUNE CITY - BREAKING NEW GROUND >---------------------------------- > >Looking for a place to hang your hat in cyberspace? FortuneCity >is now offering a whopping 20 MEGABYTES of space for you to create >a personal website. That's almost double the storage space offered >by any of the other freebie sites I know of, and it should give you >plenty of room to stash photos, clipart and sound files. Visit here >to get the details of the new 20MB Fortune City offering: > > > FortuneCity - http://www.adz.net/fc345.html > >Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu >Ever stop to think and forget to start again? >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:07:57 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: 20MB Free Websites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Giggle I just love that signature Eliza.... Comapion to Zoe farris:)))))) love it love it love it! Cheryl Wolverton This SIde of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 -----Original Message----- From: LadyEliza To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 8:01 PM Subject: Re: 20MB Free Websites >If you want to know more free websites, also free emails, free counters, >free java script, free domains and other free stuff have a look at >http://www.kmtech.com.au/webguide > >Eliza >Companion to Hajene Zoe Farris > >At 21:11 12/08/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Here's a place offering HUGE free websites, as long as they are not >>commercial. Check it out. Jean >> >>FORTUNE CITY - BREAKING NEW GROUND >>---------------------------------- >> >>Looking for a place to hang your hat in cyberspace? FortuneCity >>is now offering a whopping 20 MEGABYTES of space for you to create >>a personal website. That's almost double the storage space offered >>by any of the other freebie sites I know of, and it should give you >>plenty of room to stash photos, clipart and sound files. Visit here >>to get the details of the new 20MB Fortune City offering: >> >> >> FortuneCity - http://www.adz.net/fc345.html >> >>Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu >>Ever stop to think and forget to start again? >>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 >>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:11:01 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Susan Ross Moore Subject: Re: Book Placing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:22 PM 8/12/1998 -0700, you wrote: >Guess what? > >My second book has moved up from number Twenty-five to number Thirteen on >Amazon's bestseller's list. > >And my first book is still up at number 6. > Cheryl: That's terrific! Way to go!!! I'm really happy for you. Susan *********************************************** Need to advertise or show off a favorite photo? Of course you do!! You need buttons! Visit the Fannish Enterprises Web site at: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/fannishenterprises *********************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:51:35 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: 20MB Free Websites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean wrote: >Here's a place offering HUGE free websites, as long as they are not >commercial. Check it out. Jean > >FORTUNE CITY - BREAKING NEW GROUND >---------------------------------- JL here -- just heard a few moments ago on CNBC that Geocities is being pursued by the govt because they allege that the demographic info you give them will be completely confidential -- and then they sell it to advertisers. Geocities IPO went skyrocketing yesterday as the market melted down again. Haven't checked it today. It's hardball out there. JL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:55:18 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: New Sales MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cheryl wrote: >I just got a call from my agent! > >Guess what? I just sold three more books to my new editor!! > >I'm sooooo tickled. And we actually got a better deal on this contract!!!! > > >My new editor....I mean new...this is her first multi-contract book:))))) >bounce;;;;;))))))) > I'm not at all surprised. You're on a roll -- GO FOR IT. But do something new with each book -- and be sure to keep a log that will remind you to get the copyrights to revert in a timely fashion. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" has been turned in. And I'm almost finished with Cups. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/welcommittee and find out how to get the next Sime~Gen novel! I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 21 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:20:38 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: New Sales MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the copyright clause is in the contract....and is acceptable. re: reversions. -----Original Message----- From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 11:01 AM Subject: Re: New Sales >Cheryl wrote: > > >>I just got a call from my agent! >> >>Guess what? I just sold three more books to my new editor!! >> >>I'm sooooo tickled. And we actually got a better deal on this contract!!!! >> >> >>My new editor....I mean new...this is her first multi-contract book:))))) >>bounce;;;;;))))))) >> >I'm not at all surprised. You're on a roll -- GO FOR IT. But do something new with each book -- and be sure to keep a log that >will remind you to get the copyrights to revert in a timely fashion. > >Live Long and Prosper, >Jacqueline Lichtenberg >THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, >"The Magic of the Wands" has been turned in. And I'm almost finished with Cups. >Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/welcommittee and find out how to get the next Sime~Gen novel! > >I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. >My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian >Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 21 website Virtual Tecton >Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:26:48 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: NEWS: newsletter announcement Comments: To: mgibbins@xxxxxx.SDSU.EDU Comments: cc: Tori J Warden , Leigh Kimmel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maureen: Good work with this newsletter incarnation as a whole. You need to get out an issue REAL SOON NOW about the migration of the list and how to get onto the new List. Get the particulars from Tori and/or Leigh. CC'd above. Worry about fancy stuff later. That issue can carry the following announcement from JL; During the last month, there has been a great deal of furious activity on the publishing end of Sime~Gen in addition to the migration of the List to simegen.com and the sudden and marvelous creation of a gorgeous entry website at simegen.com for the Virtual Tecton. There are no contracts signed yet, but it really looks like 1999 may see the 8 novels back into print years sooner than I had expected. They would be available in stores, possibly available for free reading on the web, and there has been additional activity with regard to the feature film. With absolutely nothing that can be announced yet, we can only say that a lot of money is being spent on phone/fax charges -- lots of words being spoken, but nothing yet written. Until it's in writing, it doesn't exist. JL Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" has been turned in. And I'm almost finished with Cups. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/welcommittee and find out how to get the next Sime~Gen novel! I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 21 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:36:18 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Next Year In Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Jenn Vesperman wrote: >> LadyEliza wrote: >> > I believe in planing ahead :) >> > >From what I hear WorldCon will be held in Melbourne Australia next year. >> > Anyone comeing? >> I've been told I am. >> Actually, there's likely to be a bunch of us from Brisbane - might be worth >> piling into a car or a hired minibus & heading down. > >Mememe! > >I live here! :) > JL here: If you're planning to go to the 1999 Worldcon - you are VERY LATE buying a membership, and if you don't act NOW you will pay much, much more for it. The price has already gone up a couple of times. This year, we paid over $100 US -- the highest price I can recall, for attending memberships in Philadelphia bought at Worldcon in Baltimore. Buying 3 years in advance, you get the very lowest price -- and we got discounts for voting and pre-supporting. If you didn't presupport Australia, and you didn't vote for Australia, and you didn't buy the Attending Membership in Aussiecon the day after they won the bid, you will be paying a premium price. Go to the worldcon website (via simegen.com/OutTerritory if you don't have the worldcon site on your hotlist) and get the forms to send in your money NOW. In December/January the prices go up again. Also, you must be a member to be mailed the hotel registration form in January that will get you a good chance at a hotel room in the place you prefer. HURRY if you're planning to go and haven't got your attending membership or conversion yet. Prices go up regularly at short intervals from now to the con. Oh, and I think we have one attending membership here that may be for sale. JL Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:42:28 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eliza answered Jeff: >Yes, you are right. I don't know why anyone would want to print out what >is on the black pages - but as netscape isn't smart enough to do as it >should, I will put up alternatives. > You know, I hadn't THOUGHT of printing simegen.com's entry pages either -- BUT - it occurs to me that some people surfing at work might want to print it out to mail it to someone they know who is a S~G fan but who isn't online, possibly to encourage them to get online. Sometimes if you own the equipment but haven't had the strength of will to tackle figuring out how to get online, it just sits there until some friend shows you something that motivates you. So, yeah, there might be people who'd want to print these pages out -- and who don't have any control over which browser they're using, or what kind of printer settings they're using (such as someone at work). That's a design aspect to take into account. And I never thought of it. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:52:16 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: simegen.com web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:42 PM 8/13/98 -0400, Jacqueline wrote: >You know, I hadn't THOUGHT of printing simegen.com's entry pages either -- BUT - > it occurs to me that some people surfing at work >might want to print it out to mail it to someone they know who is a S~G fan but > who isn't online, possibly to encourage them to get >online. Okay, web wizards--how about a simple "Want to e-mail this information to a friend? Or even snailmail it? Click here." That would go on the info page that comes up after the hand. The link goes to a plain black-on-white page of straightforward information--the hook followed by URLs and the Welcommittee e-mail and snailmail addresses, nothing more. We do not want ten minutes of printing out. "Send this story to a friend" is commonly done on newspaper and magazine websites--someone go steal the code to automatically e-mail the info to whatever e-dress the visitor types in. And under that, just in case we have a total newbie, "Click 'print' in your browser to have your own printer make a copy of this page that you can keep or snailmail to a friend." Isn't it nice to have a problem that is so _easily_ solved??? Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:20:59 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That would go on the info page that comes up after the hand. The link goes > to a plain black-on-white page of straightforward information--the hook > followed by URLs and the Welcommittee e-mail and snailmail addresses, > nothing more. We do not want ten minutes of printing out. > I like this method a whole lot. Very easy to do. -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:02:48 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: NEWS: updated Welcommittee and ZVC sites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: I have updated both Zeor Visitor's Center and Welcommittee sites with a warning that the List is about to move to simegen.com. While I was at it, I updated the Welcommittee news pages and the T-Shirt page, and Events (which has material about conventions). I think I counted over 20 major developments that have happened since Dec '97 -- and this is only 8 months into the year. I noted that if the SIU.EDU List suddenly disappears, and YOU DO NOT GET A POST from the new List at simegen.com, then you should go to http://www.simegen.com/contacts.html and look for the new subscription information. Some people may have joined the siu.edu List after we took down the last membership listing and could get lost in the shuffle. If you're new and lurking, or sometimes have your subscription set to NOMAIL you may have to resubscribe. It likely won't be long until this happens. Our best guess is that it will happen on or before Labor Day. As Jenn has announced to the List (our miracle working Jenn) we will be running on Listserv Light -- a free but paired-down version of the Listserv software -- so we won't have all our customery bells and whistles, but it won't cost thousands of dollars to buy the software either. We are entertaining creative suggestions on how to organize ourselves to keep the control of mail-flow in the hands of each subscriber. It may be necessary to create a separate List for the Workshop. This will all need to be discussed, so if you're unhappy with these developments for some reason, study Tori's new FAQ about how to manage the List (once she's got it re-written for us) on www.simegen.com/welcommittee and tell us what your problem is. Don't just go away -- we'll try to create a solution. LL&P JL Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:08:05 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sandy Steiner Subject: Sime Bowling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Eliza and Zoe Farris write a very entertaining narrative: > Subject: Sime Bowling Forgive my ignorance, but could someone distinguish reality for me here? Were you discussing energy work, etc. in Sime~Gen terms, or talking about a roleplaying session? Sandy S SandSteinr@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:06:52 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: SMOF: Attention Webmasters on Geocities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: I just saw that Geocities has now installed SUB DIRECTORIES for non-Geo-plus websites. This can come in very handy. LL&P JL Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:46:09 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: Other cons? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruce Gray wrote: > >I know everyone isn't even back from Worldcon yet, but are there any >plans for any other major cons such as Dragon*Con (the one in Atlanta) >or others? > >Bruce >lbrucegray@xxxxxx.net > Our next Sime~Gen gathering will be at Darkover '98 -- see www.simegen.com/OutTerritory for details. The Aussies who missed out on the S~G party at Worldcon are starting to mutter about doing one in Australia next year at Worldcon there. There has been casual mention of possibilities for NasFic in Anaheim next year too. But there is nothing actually planned -- basically because nobody has decided they want to organize the event. After Darkover -- which is over Thanksgiving -- our next S~G 'Event' is the New Year's Day open Chat (during the football games -- afternoon, Eastern Standard Time). That's been done twice and I regard it as our annual business meeting -- where we make our annual awards. This year that may take longer than usual since so much has happened and we have so many heros among us. BTW: if you notice anyone doing something extraordinary for S~G fandom, go to the Controller's Boards http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/boards/general/index.html and NOMINATE -- gosh knows we've got plenty of folks who have distinguished themselves these last few weeks. There has been some discussion of moving the annual S~G gathering from Darkover and the awkward Thanksgiving weekend to another convention but nothing definite has been decided. We're too small yet to have our own con all by ourselves, and too big for someone's house when we all get together. Though some of our RPG folks managed a get-together in California recently. But when you're in someone's house, it's invitation only because there's just so much space and no more. LL&P JL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:04:30 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: NEWS: updated Welcommittee and ZVC sites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >It likely won't be long until this happens. Our best guess is that it will happen on or before Labor Day. > What, in May? lol I gather that Labour Day in the States is held sometime soon. In Australia it's in May. :) Eliza Companion to Hajene Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:16:58 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Sime Bowling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry to have been confussing :) Zoe does "heal" peoples headaches using massage and pressure points, so what she did was real, we just put Sime~Gen analagies to it. Basically - the facts are real, couching in Sime~Gen terms. Hope that helps. Eliza Companion to Hajene Zoe Farris At 17:08 13/08/98 EDT, you wrote: >Eliza and Zoe Farris write a very entertaining narrative: >> Subject: Sime Bowling > >Forgive my ignorance, but could someone distinguish reality for me here? Were >you discussing energy work, etc. in Sime~Gen terms, or talking about a >roleplaying session? > >Sandy S >SandSteinr@xxxxxx.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:19:45 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: M C Arens Subject: Electronic books & a request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First the request--could people please avoid quoting a whole message to add a line or two to it? I'm on digest, and sometimes it seems sometimes like I'm reading the same page over and over again. This from http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/news.html, where they also announce this year's Hugo winners SF&F publisher Tor Books, along with its sister imprint St. Martin's Press, has signed a deal with electronic publisher Peanut Press to offer a variety of new and reprint titles to users of the 3Com Palm Computing platform. Starting in early fall, owners of the 3Com Pilot--the leading personal digital assistant on the market--will be able to purchase electronic versions of books such as Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series for a price "competitive with their paper counterparts." "We're delighted to be offering our books to the handheld market for the first time," said Patrick Nielsen Hayden, senior editor and manager of science fiction for Tor. "As a PalmPilot organizer owner myself, I know firsthand that people use them to read books, and it's turned out to be surprisingly useful for that purpose." Pilot users will be able to buy the electronic books via the Peanut Press Web-based storefront, http://www.peanutpress.com with an average download time of one minute per book. Peanut says that a typical Palm III will be able to hold six or seven electronic novels. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:25:43 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Subject: Re: Other cons? In-Reply-To: <00a901bdc703$c9434420$0f7a5ed1@xxxxxx.ter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >There has been casual mention of possibilities for NasFic in Anaheim next year too. But there >is nothing actually planned -- basically because nobody has decided they want to organize the >event. Actually, I just thought that it was too early to plan the NasFic one. Since I have experience (ie planning two Darkover Faith Days), I thought that I could plan this one as well. Yes. I hope that that is all right with the group. Another point in my favor for planning this one is that I am physically the closest to the sight since the Convention Center and Disneyland is only 15 minutes south of my home. BTW, I already have a membership to the con. If anyone is interested in helping me with this party, I would be most grateful. And if anyone else was planning on being in charge of the party, just let me know. I would love to be on your team. Hugs to all. Cherri ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:49:39 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Yes, please do put out _alternatives_ to the white-on-black pages. I know black-on-white is better for printing and for people with early-model browsers, but the white type on a black field is much easier to read. Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:56:28 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Subject: Warning: Do NOT BUY Norton Utilities Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Today I have finally finished getting my computers back into order. My troubles started three weeks and a day ago when I loaded Norton Utilities into first my big computer and then into the Compaq. Yes, I was being stupid. I have a friend who had just gone through this but I thought she had the problem since she could boot either Win3.11 or Win95 depending on whatever command she give it. Since I didn't have this quirk, I thought it would be safe enough. It wasn't. Norton Utilities acts like a virus once it is in your system. At first, it looks like the computer is running faster but then something happens or you reboot your computer in the morning and something is lost or doesn't run just right. I thought the Norton Utilities disk actually had a bug so I ran Dr. Solomon's Anti-Virus but it didn't find any bugs. (Note: Yes, The Aniti-Virus program was up to date. I have a subscription and am very careful about that.) I had never had a backup system until this. My husband never found the money to buy one even though I'd been talking to him about it for years. Almost losing his Master thesis work in Anthropology finally tipped the scales. We bought a Zip Drive (should have been a Jaz since we have three hard drives over two computers which equals 11G but oh well) and I was able to get almost everything before the last disaster happened. I was unable to drag and drop. Once this happens, it is time to reformat. Reformatting the c drives on both of my computers was such a joy. :( The sad part is that as I was working with the many various tech support people, every one of them with the exception of Norton told me that they hear this sob story everyday. This is not a joke and this is not a post that I am forwarding to you. This really happened to me. The Bender Cove Sime Center players know this is true since I have talked hardly of nothing else for weeks. And I am not an insolated case, I know of at least three people personally who have had this problem. So please, if you are having trouble with your computer, do not buy Norton Utilities, spend the money for a technician. In the end, you will spend less money and have saved hours and hours of time. Cherri ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:08:37 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Subject: Re: Other cons? In-Reply-To: <00a901bdc703$c9434420$0f7a5ed1@xxxxxx.ter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >There has been some discussion of moving the annual S~G gathering from Darkover and the awkward Thanksgiving weekend to another convention but nothing definite has been decided. We're too small yet to have our own con all by ourselves, and too big for someone's house when we all get together. Though some of our RPG folks managed a get-together in California recently. But when you're in someone's house, it's invitation only because there's just so much space and no more. Oh, I don't know. There is a lot of space around the house and there is a community party/pool area right behind my house. A party of all the lists is do-able as long as most agree to get a nearby hotel room. The Bender Cove party was a blast! But since there was only 5 of us, I had plenty of room for people to simply stay in my home. Perhaps a weekend where we could just be together in my home or at the pool or even arranging a tour to Disneyland or Universal Studios or any number of things one finds in the Southern California area. Let me know if you are interested in a list party and/or if you think that this party is even feasible. Hugs to all. Cherri aka Veraik ambrov Liorie Controller Bender Cove Sime Center. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:27:11 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Sime Bowling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sandy Steiner wrote: > > Eliza and Zoe Farris write a very entertaining narrative: > > Subject: Sime Bowling > > Forgive my ignorance, but could someone distinguish reality for me here? Were > you discussing energy work, etc. in Sime~Gen terms, or talking about a > roleplaying session? I know them both, & am pretty sure which bowling alley they were in (if I hadn't been exhausted, I'd have probably gone bowling a teeny bit later myself...) They were discussing real events, in fictional terms. I think. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:50:33 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Other cons? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980813162543.0089eab0@xxxxxx.net> from "Cherri" at Aug 13, 98 04:25:43 pm Content-Type: text Cherri wrote: > Actually, I just thought that it was too early to plan the NasFic one. > Since I have experience (ie planning two Darkover Faith Days), I thought > that I could plan this one as well. Yes. I hope that that is all right > with the group. Another point in my favor for planning this one is that I > am physically the closest to the sight since the Convention Center and > Disneyland is only 15 minutes south of my home. BTW, I already have a > membership to the con. If anyone is interested in helping me with this > party, I would be most grateful. And if anyone else was planning on being > in charge of the party, just let me know. I would love to be on your team. Since I live about 30 minutes away, I'd be willing to help plan. Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:52:06 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: simegen.com web site In-Reply-To: <01J0KEZ6UPPU907QCX@xxxxxx.com> from "Chantal Whittington" at Aug 13, 98 07:49:39 pm Content-Type: text > > Yes, please do put out _alternatives_ to the white-on-black pages. I know > black-on-white is better for printing and for people with early-model > browsers, but the white type on a black field is much easier to read. This, of course, varies from person to person. I find dark type on a light background much easier to read than light-on-dark. (Let's not even go into light-type-on-black-and-starfield background, which some folks who will shall remain nameless use...) Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:47:43 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > Okay, web wizards--how about a simple "Want to e-mail this information to a > friend? Or even snailmail it? Click here." > > That would go on the info page that comes up after the hand. The link goes > to a plain black-on-white page of straightforward information--the hook > followed by URLs and the Welcommittee e-mail and snailmail addresses, > nothing more. We do not want ten minutes of printing out. > > "Send this story to a friend" is commonly done on newspaper and magazine > websites--someone go steal the code to automatically e-mail the info to > whatever e-dress the visitor types in. And under that, just in case we have > a total newbie, "Click 'print' in your browser to have your own printer make > a copy of this page that you can keep or snailmail to a friend." > > Isn't it nice to have a problem that is so _easily_ solved??? Jean Easy done - but not by me, not today! I've got tickets to pick up... Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:57:46 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Warning: Do NOT BUY Norton Utilities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cherri wrote: > > So please, if you are having trouble with your computer, do not buy Norton > Utilities, spend the money for a technician. In the end, you will spend > less money and have saved hours and hours of time. Note that we techie types tend to have our own toolboxes - usually not commercial, and as individual as 'sonic screwdrivers'. Most of our toolkit, however, is in our heads.. Jenn V. ('Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers' - Unix fortune cookie) -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:09:47 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Subject: Re: Other cons? In-Reply-To: <199808140050.RAA10849@xxxxxx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Since I live about 30 minutes away, I'd be willing to help plan. Thank you. Cherri ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:23:51 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: 20MB Free Websites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:51 PM 8/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >Jean wrote: > >>Here's a place offering HUGE free websites, as long as they are not >>commercial. Check it out. Jean >> >>FORTUNE CITY - BREAKING NEW GROUND >>---------------------------------- >JL here -- just heard a few moments ago on CNBC that Geocities is being pursued > by the govt because they allege that the demographic >info you give them will be completely confidential -- and then they sell it to > advertisers. As I understand it, they don't sell my personal data or e-dress to advertisers; they sell, X million patrons, X% under 20, X% over 50, X% with graduate degrees, etc. etc. etc. I don't think that violates anyone's privacy. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:34:50 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: Warning: Do NOT BUY Norton Utilities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So please, if you are having trouble with your computer, do not buy Norton > Utilities, spend the money for a technician. In the end, you will spend > less money and have saved hours and hours of time. > There have been warnings against using Norton on a Fat-32 partitioned drive for a couple years. As for offline storage, you might consider Creative Labs' DVD-RAM drive. 700 bucks gets you the drive and 11 5.2gigabyte storage disks. Since these are totally re-writable CDROMS, you never have to worry about losing your data unless you make it a point to erase that data. -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:11:01 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: theresa sorrell Subject: Re: simegen.com web site Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) My biggest problem with colors is the really acid blues and pinks some people use on their websites. It is almost unreadable for me unless I sit right on top of the tv and squint. I have an extremely strong correction on my glasses and after awhile of really bright print the words start to blur together and I can't read anything. I'm lucky that my printer will automatically change white on black to black on white when it prints. When I was using the library printer I had to make sure that the printer was set to black on white or I'd get a blank piece of paper off the printer. Starsinger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:17:25 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sylvia Engdahl Subject: Re: Warning: Do NOT BUY Norton Utilities In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980813165628.007ff100@xxxxxx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Cherri wrote: > So please, if you are having trouble with your computer, do not buy Norton > Utilities, spend the money for a technician. In the end, you will spend > less money and have saved hours and hours of time. I had Norton Utilities 2.0 for a long time and it worked fine. But when I upgraded to 3.0, disaster struck! I didn't have the same problems you had, but I had others, including a screen that kept popping up that wouldn't let anything else run. Because I was knowledable enough to get Norton out of my startup folder via DOS commands, I recovered, but I haven't yet dared to take the time to reinstall it. The solutions I was offered via Symantec's website did not strike me as reliable. Now, I'm debating whether to put 2.0 back -- I hate to when I have paid for the upgrade, but it did the jobs I wanted done, and right now I have nothing. I have read that one must be sure to install the Live Update from the Internet in order to make 3.0 work. I did that, but it was only a week or so after the release of a new Live Update and I suspect there were bugs in it. Perhaps eventually they will get them all out. They will have to if they want to restore their formerly high reputation. Ironically, Symantec's national tech support phone center is here in Eugene -- a few years back they took over an abandoned department store and were a major factor in the revival of the downtown area. But they are not any easier to reach when I'm local than they would be if I lived 3000 miles away, except for its not being a long distance call. Sylvia ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ** New edition of my Star Trilogy coming in 2000 from Meisha Merlin! ** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Sylvia Engdahl - Eugene, Oregon Visit my Website! sengdahl@xxxxxx.com http://www.teleport.com/~sengdahl/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:23:41 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Hannah M.G. Shapero" Subject: Re: simegen.com web site In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980813195216.006eccc4@xxxxxx.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Okay, web wizards--how about a simple "Want to e-mail this information to a > friend? Or even snailmail it? Click here." > > That would go on the info page that comes up after the hand. The link goes > to a plain black-on-white page of straightforward information--the hook > followed by URLs and the Welcommittee e-mail and snailmail addresses, > nothing more. We do not want ten minutes of printing out. Sime-Gen webfolks: There is a problem with this for people with "primitive" (UNIX/PINE) e-mail readers (such as I have). When I get a forwarded message from a Web site, the line-widths are garbled all over the place. It is like word salad and is very hard to read. A lot of times I simply delete it rather than read it. So you have to be careful what line-widths will transform into when forwarding such messages. Yours, Hannah M.G.Shapero ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 13:35:56 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hannah M.G. Shapero wrote: > > > Okay, web wizards--how about a simple "Want to e-mail this information to a > > friend? Or even snailmail it? Click here." > > > > That would go on the info page that comes up after the hand. The link goes > > to a plain black-on-white page of straightforward information--the hook > > followed by URLs and the Welcommittee e-mail and snailmail addresses, > > nothing more. We do not want ten minutes of printing out. > > Sime-Gen webfolks: There is a problem with this for people with > "primitive" (UNIX/PINE) e-mail readers (such as I have). When I get a > forwarded message from a Web site, the line-widths are garbled all over > the place. It is like word salad and is very hard to read. A lot of times > I simply delete it rather than read it. If we make this a .txt page, it /should/ come up readable in all browsers, mailers & printers. Can anyone see a problem with that option? Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:05:53 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kaas Baichtal Subject: SMOF: updated Welcommittee and ZVC sites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/13/98 4:28:24 PM CDT zeor@xxxxxx.NET (Jacqueline Lichtenberg) wrote: << While I was at it, I updated the Welcommittee news pages and the T-Shirt page, and Events (which has material about conventions). >> JL, would it be possible to use my tee shirt page and order form instead? The URL is http://www.baichtal.com/kaas/art/atchatee.html. It has front and back photos and all other required info. --Kaas kaas@xxxxxx.com http://www.baichtal.com/kaas/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:37:58 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: Warning: Do NOT BUY Norton Utilities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sylvia, see you live in Eugene. I was down there years ago and met this really nice gal named Julie Bublitz. Did you ever know her? -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 02:51:15 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Taking a Channel to Lunch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's a waste of time and money taking a channel to a smogasboard lunch! Day after transfer I thought it would be nice to take Zoe out to lunch at a place called "Valentines" which is a very nice chain of smogasboard buffet style resturants. (Anyone in Australian who hasn't yet tried them - put it on your "list of places to eat") 126 different dishes! Most of which are totally wasted on Simes. No appreaciation of good food! By the time I was 3/4 of the way through my first plate (squid, with extra tenticles, oysters, muscles, prawns and other squiggling delights) Zoe had just started on her lettuce. She also had tomarto and cheese - very adventurous I'm sure. I patiently waited the 1/2 hour it took her to finish this first course, after which she said "do you mind waiting for that to go down before we get any more?" *sigh* I then had roast pork, roast lamb, oysters killpatrick, muscles in fish sauce, and baked ham. Zoe had honeyed carrots and mined peas - errr, yeah that was it. This time I was ready and really stacked up the plate, as well as trying very hard to eat ... at ... sime .... pace. *sigh* Zoe then had to visit the little simes room (the outhouse) so I ran off and quickly grabbed some cheese and crackers to keep me going. When she returned I convienced her that she just had to try some of the deserts. I had a brandy snap, a slice of pavolva, a cream puff, a ginger slice and a slice of cheese cake. Zoe had a small bowl of chocolate pudding and a jelly bean. *sigh* THEN she had the hide to tell me that it was MY fault she ate too much!!!! *SIGH* Considering eating alone (geee Zoe said the same thing, I think the tenticles on the squid got to her) Eliza Companion to Hajene Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:02:21 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Taking a Channel to Lunch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit with extra tentacles????? No wonder the poor Sime couldn't eat!!! Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 >THEN she had the hide to tell me that it was MY fault she ate too much!!!! > >*SIGH* > >Considering eating alone (geee Zoe said the same thing, I think the >tenticles on the squid got to her) > >Eliza >Companion to Hajene Zoe Farris > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:25:21 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Edward Bornstein Subject: Re: Taking a Channel to Lunch In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980814025112.006c3164@xxxxxx..au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >It's a waste of time and money taking a channel to a smogasboard lunch! > >Day after transfer I thought it would be nice to take Zoe out to lunch at > >By the time I was 3/4 of the way through my first plate (squid, with extra >tenticles, oysters, muscles, prawns and other squiggling delights) Zoe had >just started on her lettuce. She also had tomarto and cheese - very >adventurous I'm sure. > >I patiently waited the 1/2 hour it took her to finish this first course, >after which she said "do you mind waiting for that to go down before we get >any more?" *sigh* > >I then had roast pork, roast lamb, oysters killpatrick, muscles in fish >sauce, and baked ham. A proper Companion would know that Simes can't eat meat, and the smell kills what little appetite they have.... -- "As the _Dying Swan _ spurted from the momship's belly, worldkiller starbombs gestating beneath savage winglets, to featherfall upon the somnolent globe, Li-Hon Auletek, the Living Buddha of the Universal Pacifist Church, parted his lips in a wolverinesque sneer. " My 1997 losing Bulwer-Lytton entry. Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 06:23:58 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Young channel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My two sons were "rough housing" in the lounge room. The older, Leslie (16) had the younger, Garth (12) by the arm. Both were laughing wildly when Garth suddenly yelled out "Stop, you're squeezing my laterals!" Needless to say, this completely cracked Zoe and me up! Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 06:51:06 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 13-AUG-1998 20:59:24.6 SIMEGEN-L said to AERDEN SI>> SI>> Yes, please do put out _alternatives_ to the white-on-black pages. SI>I know > black-on-white is better for printing and for people with SI>early-model > browsers, but the white type on a black field is much SI>easier to read. SI>This, of course, varies from person to person. I find dark type on a SI>light background much easier to read than light-on-dark. (Let's not SI>even go into light-type-on-black-and-starfield background, which SI>some folks who will shall remain nameless use...) Tony Z---Oh yes! (g) That's extremely annoying. Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 07:22:44 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: TECH: Re: simegen.com web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you, Hannah. This problem is easily solved, but without someone who uses a very basic e-mail system pointing it out, most webmasters would not think to do it. First, since WorldCon I have been working behind the scenes on LOTS of long e-mails concerning new plans for simegen.com, so I have not had time to hunt up a site with the "e-mail this story to a friend" command and look at the code. I suspect there is a way to set line length within it. But if there isn't, you can set line length in standard HTML. Choose a fairly short length, such as 50 characters, and put a
at the end of each line. BTW, I don't think most of the WYSIWYG programs allow you to do this, or at least they don't make obvious how (you can tell that I rarely use them), so problems like this are a reason to learn how to do basic HTML code by hand. Even if you prefer to use a program, knowing that this code is _possible_ allows you to hunt for a method for your program to do it. Not knowing how easy it is to do by hand, or not knowing that it can be done at all, means that you may never find the command for it in your program. Jean At 11:23 PM 8/13/98 -0400, Hannah wrote: >Sime-Gen webfolks: There is a problem with this for people with >"primitive" (UNIX/PINE) e-mail readers (such as I have). When I get a >forwarded message from a Web site, the line-widths are garbled all over >the place. It is like word salad and is very hard to read. A lot of times >I simply delete it rather than read it. > >So you have to be careful what line-widths will transform into when >forwarding such messages. > >Yours, Hannah M.G.Shapero > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 07:27:30 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: TECH: Re: simegen.com web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:35 PM 8/14/98 +1000, Jenn wrote: >If we make this a .txt page, it /should/ come up readable in all browsers, >mailers & printers. > >Can anyone see a problem with that option? Only that courier on gray is pretty ugly. I suggest experimenting a bit to find a solution that works on Hannah's system (I can test it with the old Music system here, too) and still looks nice on the website. This discussion began with the complaint that some people have trouble reading white text on black, or can't print it out, and _then_ diverged into e-mail. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 07:42:16 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: TECH: Win98 Users Only Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Microsoft posts a fix for Outlook 98, but a false patch circulates. by Jon Cornetto, InfoWorld Electric August 13, 1998, 9:57 a.m. PT While Microsoft was busily posting patches to fix a security flaw in its Outlook 98 and Outlook Express 4.x e-mail client, an impostor has been sending a false e-mail patch to users, claiming it is a fix from Microsoft. If someone runs the fake patch, it sends an outgoing e-mail to a location in Bulgaria, according to Karan Khanna, a product manager for Windows NT security at Microsoft. "The outgoing e-mail is all we can discern at this time, but the [fake patch] could be doing something else that we haven't been able to detect," Khanna said. Russ Cooper, moderator for the NTBugtraq mailing list said that tests had been done on the patch, and that it appears to be malicious. "It looks ugly. It attempts to spam a bunch of Bulgarian ISPs as far as we can tell," Cooper said. "There's all kinds of ugly words in it." Khanna suggested that users should not run the executable, and should delete it from their hard drives if it has been detached. The name of the program is "IE080898.EXE." The Trojan Horse e-mail identifies its sender as "Microsoft Internet Explorer Support Center" with an e-mail address of "IESupport@xxxxxx.com." Often, the subject line reads, "FREE! Your upgrade for Microsoft Internet Explorer." At other times, the message claimed that the patch fixed recently discovered security glitches in Microsoft Outlook, according to Microsoft. Microsoft on Monday posted on its Web site an authentic updated fix for the Outlook security flaw that was discovered in July. "After additional testing, we found a variant on the first security issue," Khanna said. This update fixes the variant, and includes the original fix Microsoft posted in July. Click here for more news from InfoWorld Electric. Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 07:49:28 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kaas Baichtal Subject: TECH: WYSWYG HTML Editors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/14/98 7:24:40 AM CDT a21711f@xxxxxx.MURSUKY.EDU (Jean Lorrah) wrote: << BTW, I don't think most of the WYSIWYG programs allow you to do this, or at least they don't make obvious how (you can tell that I rarely use them), so problems like this are a reason to learn how to do basic HTML code by hand. Even if you prefer to use a program, knowing that this code is _possible_ allows you to hunt for a method for your program to do it. Not knowing how easy it is to do by hand, or not knowing that it can be done at all, means that you may never find the command for it in your program. >> Jean... would it be possible for you to not slam WYSWYG programs and their users quite so much? As with any other tool, these utilities are only as good, or bad, as the person who is using them. Being inventive and adventuresome can get a person farther, true, but that can be said of any method -- including coding by hand. --Kaas kaas@xxxxxx.com http://www.baichtal.com/kaas/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:55:00 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Labor Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LadyEliza wrote: > What, in May? lol > > I gather that Labour Day in the States is held sometime soon. In Australia > it's in May. As in most of the world. But here in the U.S., where Mayday actually happened, the date is the first Monday in September. (It's the same in Canada.) Although the general strike was called for 1 May, the massacre in Chicago was on Tuesday, 4 May 1886; a chapter of American history almost forgotten in America. See http://www.netizen.org/haymarket/ . Unfortunately, the homepage requires graphics to reach its links, which I list here: Intro: http://www.netizen.org/Haymarket/eyenet62.htm Chronology: http://www.netizen.org/Haymarket/chronos.htm Autobiographies: http://www.netizen.org/Haymarket/Autobios/ Daily life: http://www.netizen.org/Haymarket/Life/ Chicago labor: http://www.netizen.org/Haymarket/SRs/ -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:58:22 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenn V. wrote: > If we make this a .txt page, it /should/ come up readable in all browsers, > mailers & printers. > > Can anyone see a problem with that option? Ahh, the voice of reason. Of course, email is plain text, and plenty of it is unreadable by reason of long line lengths. In particular, I find JL's mail very hard to read because she doesn't limit herself to 80 columns as is customary, but types to the edge of her screen (typically Farris, no?). So plain text limited to 80 columns will do the job. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:45:54 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: TECH: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > But if there isn't, you can set line length in standard HTML. Choose a > fairly short length, such as 50 characters, and put a
at the end of > each line. Unfortunately, that doesn't work, at least not in Netscape. Email is sent with the line length of the viewer's browser, not the line length in the HTML, which is discarded at an early stage. Bogus. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:53:43 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: TECH: Re: simegen.com web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > Only that courier on gray is pretty ugly. I suggest experimenting a bit to > find a solution that works on Hannah's system (I can test it with the old > Music system here, too) and still looks nice on the website. Oh, *that's* easily done. Create trivial HTML, thus: Whatever This is plain text at whatever width you want
except that every line ends with a BR tag
and so on and so on. The background color
has been forced to white, as it should have
been in the first place; the 75% gray is a bad
compromise between the white that is most readable
for text and the 50% gray that looks best for
pictures.

Blank lines have to be changed to lines with P
tags on them. Both these operations are trivial
with any sort of text editor beyond Notepad.

Researcher Sergio Rinaldi -- fittingly, an Italian -- has used modern mathematics to describe the emotional responses of the great Italian poet Petrarch to a woman known only as Laura, the object of his undying love and desire. Rinaldi found that for about 20 years the poet's emotions followed a regular cyclical pattern ranging between extremes of ecstasy and utter despair. Rinaldi's work appears in a recent issue of the Journal on Applied Mathematics, published by the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics.

Rinaldi, of the Politecnico di Milano, uses his results to tentatively date some previously undated poems from Petrarch's Canzoniere, which he calls "the most celebrated book of love poems in the Western world."

Petrarch first saw Laura in a church in Avignon in April 1327 and immediately loved her, according to his own accounts. Unfortunately for him, Laura was married and not interested, so his love was a chaste one.

Yet he wrote hundreds of tormented poems alternately expressing ardor and anguish. Indeed, Petrarch continued to write love poems to Laura's memory long after she fell victim to the bubonic plague, which wiped out a third of 14th-century Europe. Petrarch's love poems subsequently influenced many great poets, including Shakespeare, says Rinaldi.

Unfortunately, only a few poems in the Canzoniere are dated. Moreover, scholars have found it particularly difficult to guess dates for the undated poems, since Petrarch habitually revised almost everything he wrote, and attitudes in his later work are often anticipated in earlier writings. Knowing the correct order of Petrarch's works might give scholars insight into the evolution of his thought and thus help them understand his contribution to the beginning of the Renaissance, with its intellectual shift from religious to humanist values, Rinaldi said.

Rinaldi first became interested in this project after reading a book by Frederic Jones of the University of Wales called The Structure of Petrarch's Canzoniere. Jones analyzed the dated poems for their linguistic and stylistic qualities, and assigned to each a numerical grade between minus-1 and 1, where 1 represents ecstatic love and minus-1, deep despair, explains Rinaldi. When Jones graphed the grades vs. time, there was a suggestion of a rhythmic up-and-down pattern that repeated itself approximately every four years. From the graph, Jones extrapolated dates for the undated poems, using tidbits of historical evidence to help decide between several different four-year periods.

Intrigued by Jones' results, Rinaldi decided to rigorously analyze the poetry using the full arsenal of modern mathematics.

Rinaldi used dynamics, a field of mathematics that has been applied extensively to model phenomena in such fields as biology, physics and economics. To describe a natural system such as a population of bacteria, the flow of a fluid -- or in this case, the emotions of a lovesick poet -- a scientist might devise several equations describing the rate of change of various aspects of the system, and apply sophisticated mathematical techniques to understand the system's behavior over time.

Rinaldi's equations represent the rate of change of Laura's love for Petrarch over time, the rate of change of Petrarch's love for Laura, and the rate of change of Petrarch's "poetic inspiration," all based on Petrarch's writings. The scientist also defined mathematical functions describing the reactions of Laura and Petrarch to each other, and the appeal of each to the other. The love-lorn Petrarch is five times more reactive to Laura's love and appeal than she to his, according to Rinaldi's equations.

The equations also mathematically relate Petrarch's love for Laura to his poetic inspiration because, as Rinaldi observes, the "high moral tensions associated with artistic achievement attenuate the role of the most basic instincts." In other words, Petrarch is less passionate when he's working hard at his poetry.

Rinaldi also factors in Laura's manipulative interplay with Petrarch. One candidate for the mysterious Laura seems to be Laura de Sade of Avignon, an ancestress of the notorious Marquis de Sade, said Rinaldi. Apparently de Sade had many of the "sadistic" tendencies of her famous descendant.

"She was flirting as a game," says Rinaldi. "She was exciting him. She was taking him alive."

Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:30:07 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Real-life Underdraw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" By Marie McCullough
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER


When Roberta Crawford was in her 20s, doctors advised her to take iron supplements because she was anemic.

It seemed reasonable to her. Anyone who watched television commercials knew that "iron-poor, tired blood" was common, especially in women.

But Crawford's fatigue, joint pain, low blood sugar, and other symptoms got worse the more iron pills she popped.

Finally, when she was 38, her liver became enlarged, and a biopsy revealed the real problem. Her body was absorbing too much iron. The excess had been building up in her tissues for decades, slowly damaging her liver, pancreas and other organs.

Her insidious disease, called hemochromatosis, had a simple treatment. She periodically had blood withdrawn, thus forcing her body to use up its lethal stores of iron.

"For three years, I had bloodletting weekly. The symptoms all cleared up," said Crawford, of North Palm Beach, Fla., whose diagnosis 20 years ago led her to found the Iron Overload Diseases Association. "Now I'm on a maintenance schedule. I give blood about three times a year."

Activists like Crawford, medical experts, and federal health officials are working to raise awareness of hemochromatosis (pronounced hemo-kroma-TOE-sis).

While the disease can be fatal if undetected, it is easy to diagnose with blood tests for iron levels, and simple to treat with bloodletting, called phlebotomy.

Contrary to what scientists used to believe, hemochromatosis is the most common hereditary disease in the world, afflicting an estimated 24 million people, including 1.5 million Americans.

"Doctors will order a dozen tests for liver failure, but they usually don't think of hemochromatosis until dead last," said Dr. Christopher Friedrich, who set up a hemochromatosis clinic a year ago at the University of Pennsylvania Medical Center. "And yet it's the easiest to treat."

Iron is essential to biological processes. Without iron, red blood cells can't do their vital job of ferrying oxygen throughout the body.

But when the body absorbs too much iron, it accumulates in tissues, disrupting normal cell function or causing inflammation and scarring. The liver, pancreas, heart, joints and reproductive organs are especially vulnerable.

Iron overload can even occur along with anemia because, while a common form of anemia involves iron deficiency, other forms do not. Crawford's anemia, for example, was caused by a deficiency of vitamins B-12 and folic acid.

The damage from hemochromatosis typically shows up in middle age, although some people manifest symptoms as early as their 20s. Women may take longer to become symptomatic because of the protective effect of monthly menstrual bleeding and pregnancy.

Early symptoms include fatigue, joint pain, depression, hair loss, impotence, irregular menstrual periods -- problems that are often chalked up to aging and may in fact be complicated by aging or chronic ailments other than hemochromatosis.

In late stages, there may be chronic fatigue, diabetes, arthritis, premature menopause, heart disease, heart failure, cirrhosis of the liver, liver cancer. (Liver damage may be exacerbated by drinking alcohol.) The skin may even take on a brownish or grayish tone as iron builds up.

Donna Pisani, 43, of Lafayette Hill, remembered how she and her seven siblings teased their father about his mysterious tan, which persisted year-round. "We were all so fair-skinned, and he always had this bronze color."

Too late, they learned that her father was suffering end-stage hemochromatosis. After he died of liver failure seven years ago at age 66, an autopsy revealed the disease. Doctors who treated his declining health for a decade missed it.

"There are so many people who are unaware of hemochromatosis, and I mean medical people," Pisani said. "That's what scares me."

Pisani and her siblings have since been tested for hemochromatosis. Although they had no symptoms, five of them, including Pisani, turned out to have the disease and were treated with phlebotomy. They continue to remove blood several times a year to control their iron levels.

Experts recommend two simple, reliable blood tests to flag elevated iron levels: transferrin saturation, which measures how much iron is being transported by a protein called transferrin; and serum ferritin, which measures how much iron is stored in the blood by a protein called ferritin. In some cases, these tests may be supplemented by another to measure liver enzymes. A liver biopsy can confirm a diagnosis, but this more costly, invasive procedure usually isn't necessary because successful treatment confirms the diagnosis.

Two years ago, scientists at Mercator Genetics Inc. of Menlo Park, Calif., made a breakthrough in identifying people at risk by discovering a hemochromatosis gene. Researchers estimate that one in 200 people inherits defective genes from both parents, making that person extremely likely but not certain to get the disease, while one in 10 people inherits one defective gene, making him or her a carrier of the disease.

Mercator's genetic test is now available from many commercial laboratories, including SmithKline Beecham Clinical Laboratories, according to the Iron Overload Diseases Association. Penn's hemochromatosis clinic also offers a genetic test, Friedrich said.

Given the potential dangers of belated detection, there is debate about whether everyone should be screened for hemochromatosis and if so, whether to use genetic or blood tests, or both.

American Hemochromatosis Society founder Sandra Thomas, who recently broke away from Crawford's organization, says she is pushing for genetic testing "for every man, woman and child," as well as blood testing. Thomas also advocates treating the disease when it is found in children, while most experts believe that in young, developing bodies the dangers of bloodletting may be greater than the dangers of extra iron absorption.

The College of American Pathologists and other groups, as well as many researchers, believe all adults should be screened for hemochromatosis, but that blood tests, not genetic tests, should be used.

"I don't think it's too early to screen" with blood tests, said Dr. Geoffrey Block, a liver-disease specialist at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. "It's a disease that can be managed well if caught early. When we have the technology to readily diagnose a disease, we should be doing it."

So far, the nation's leading public health agency, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is taking a conservative approach. The CDC does not yet recommend universal screening using blood tests because of uncertainties about the natural course of the disease and standardization of testing, and the need to better educate doctors.

The CDC also believes it is premature to do universal genetic testing for hemochromatosis. Last month, a national panel of experts convened by the CDC recommended against this strategy, citing questions about the reliability of the test, the prevalence and impact of inherited mutations, and possible discrimination against those found to have mutations. The panel's report appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

"We can't translate the genetic test into a risk profile," said CDC epidemiologist Sharon McDonnell. "Just because we can do a test, doesn't mean we should."

Still, there is no debate over one point: Anyone with a family history or symptoms of hemochromatosis should have blood tests and, depending on the results, get treated.

"Studies of families that have been treated show that as a rule of thumb, most health problems will not get worse, some problems get better, and other problems can be prevented," Block said.

Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:46:11 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 18-AUG-1998 11:00:20.3 SIMEGEN-L said to AERDEN SI>It's ZEE-or? SI>AUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! (And I mean that in a nice way...) (Jean L.) "It's pronounced 'ZAY-or.' Thank you, God! What Robyn said. I tend to read SF/Fantasy words with Latin vowel pronunciation, so, for me, it's 'ZAY-or' and 'SEH-lin.' To me, 'seh-LINE' makes it sound too much like 'slime'... (g) SI>Don't tell me..."Sectuib" is really pronounced "Chuck," right? :) (giggle!) I think that one is actually pronounced 'tweeb,' so I'm okay with it. :) Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:46:24 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII SI>>Folks, we cannot afford Big Name Artists like Kelly Freas and Michael SI>Whelan. What we hope to do is discover artists just as good who have SI>not yet had the exposure, give them that exposure at prices we _can_ SI>afford, watch them move up the ladder...and then just hope that we can SI>be successful enough at selling books and other things to still be SI>able to afford them as their prices rise. Jean Jean--My two recommendations would be either Diana Stein or (preferably) June Drexler Robertson. June is an _excellent_ artist who does very fine portraiture and figure illustrations and likes to draw people in historical clothing. I think Diana was nominated for a fan artist Hugo one year. She has gotten light-years better than her earlier work, but in my opinion isn't quite as good as June. However, I haven't seen Diana's work in several years, so she might have gotten even better. Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:54:45 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Real-life Underdraw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Absolutely fascinating. I do know some friends who said, once you get a hysterectomy you shouldn't take iron supplements..... I've been chronically anemic all my life....however now, my hct runs 45....on my cbc....which is amazing:) anyway.....so, anything about stuff like this I find fascinating......I have to wonder where you find all of these interesting articles:) Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 -----Original Message----- From: Jean Lorrah To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 7:31 PM Subject: Real-life Underdraw >By Marie McCullough
>INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
>
>
>When Roberta Crawford was in her 20s, doctors advised >her to take iron supplements because she was anemic.

> > It seemed reasonable to her. Anyone who watched television commercials knew >that "iron-poor, tired blood" was common, especially in women.

> > But Crawford's fatigue, joint pain, low blood sugar, and other symptoms got >worse the more iron pills she popped.

> > Finally, when she was 38, her liver became enlarged, and a biopsy revealed >the real problem. Her body was absorbing too much iron. The excess >had been building up in her tissues for decades, slowly damaging her liver, >pancreas and other organs.

> > Her insidious disease, called hemochromatosis, had a simple treatment. She >periodically had blood withdrawn, thus forcing her body to use up its lethal >stores of iron.

> > "For three years, I had bloodletting weekly. The symptoms all cleared up," >said Crawford, of North Palm Beach, Fla., whose diagnosis 20 years ago led >her to found the Iron Overload Diseases Association. "Now I'm on a >maintenance schedule. I give blood about three times a year."

> > Activists like Crawford, medical experts, and federal health officials are >working to raise awareness of hemochromatosis (pronounced >hemo-kroma-TOE-sis).

> > While the disease can be fatal if undetected, it is easy to diagnose with >blood tests for iron levels, and simple to treat with bloodletting, called >phlebotomy.

> > Contrary to what scientists used to believe, hemochromatosis is the most >common hereditary disease in the world, afflicting an estimated 24 million >people, including 1.5 million Americans.

> > "Doctors will order a dozen tests for liver failure, but they usually don't >think of hemochromatosis until dead last," said Dr. Christopher Friedrich, >who set up a hemochromatosis clinic a year ago at the University of >Pennsylvania Medical Center. "And yet it's the easiest to treat."

> > Iron is essential to biological processes. Without iron, red blood cells >can't do their vital job of ferrying oxygen throughout the body.

> > But when the body absorbs too much iron, it accumulates in tissues, >disrupting normal cell function or causing inflammation and scarring. The >liver, pancreas, heart, joints and reproductive organs are especially >vulnerable.

> > Iron overload can even occur along with anemia because, while a common form >of anemia involves iron deficiency, other forms do not. Crawford's anemia, >for example, was caused by a deficiency of vitamins B-12 and folic acid.

> > The damage from hemochromatosis typically shows up in middle age, although >some people manifest symptoms as early as their 20s. Women may take longer >to become symptomatic because of the protective effect of monthly menstrual >bleeding and pregnancy.

> > Early symptoms include fatigue, joint pain, depression, hair loss, >impotence, irregular menstrual periods -- problems that are often chalked >up to aging and may in fact be complicated by aging or chronic ailments >other than hemochromatosis.

> > In late stages, there may be chronic fatigue, diabetes, arthritis, >premature menopause, heart disease, heart failure, cirrhosis of the liver, >liver cancer. (Liver damage may be exacerbated by drinking alcohol.) The >skin may even take on a brownish or grayish tone as iron builds up.

> > Donna Pisani, 43, of Lafayette Hill, remembered how she and her seven >siblings teased their father about his mysterious tan, which persisted >year-round. "We were all so fair-skinned, and he always had this bronze >color."

> >Too late, they learned that her father was suffering end-stage >hemochromatosis. After he died of liver failure seven years ago at age 66, >an autopsy revealed the disease. Doctors who treated his declining health >for a decade missed it.

> > "There are so many people who are unaware of hemochromatosis, and I mean >medical people," Pisani said. "That's what scares me."

> > Pisani and her siblings have since been tested for hemochromatosis. >Although they had no symptoms, five of them, including Pisani, turned out to >have the disease and were treated with phlebotomy. They continue to remove >blood several times a year to control their iron levels.

> > Experts recommend two simple, reliable blood tests to flag elevated iron >levels: transferrin saturation, which measures how much iron is being >transported by a protein called transferrin; and serum ferritin, which >measures how much iron is stored in the blood by a protein called ferritin. >In some cases, these tests may be supplemented by another to measure liver >enzymes. A liver biopsy can confirm a diagnosis, but this more costly, >invasive procedure usually isn't necessary because successful treatment >confirms the diagnosis.

> > Two years ago, scientists at Mercator Genetics Inc. of Menlo Park, Calif., >made a breakthrough in identifying people at risk by discovering a >hemochromatosis gene. Researchers estimate that one in 200 people inherits >defective genes from both parents, making that person extremely likely but >not certain to get the disease, while one in 10 people inherits one >defective gene, making him or her a carrier of the disease.

> > Mercator's genetic test is now available from many commercial laboratories, >including SmithKline Beecham Clinical Laboratories, according to the Iron >Overload Diseases Association. Penn's hemochromatosis clinic also offers a >genetic test, Friedrich said.

> > Given the potential dangers of belated detection, there is debate about >whether everyone should be screened for hemochromatosis and if so, whether >to use genetic or blood tests, or both.

> > American Hemochromatosis Society founder Sandra Thomas, who recently broke >away from Crawford's organization, says she is pushing for genetic testing >"for every man, woman and child," as well as blood testing. Thomas also >advocates treating the disease when it is found in children, while most >experts believe that in young, developing bodies the dangers of bloodletting >may be greater than the dangers of extra iron absorption.

> > The College of American Pathologists and other groups, as well as many >researchers, believe all adults should be screened for hemochromatosis, but >that blood tests, not genetic tests, should be used.

> > "I don't think it's too early to screen" with blood tests, said Dr. >Geoffrey Block, a liver-disease specialist at the University of Pittsburgh >Medical Center. "It's a disease that can be managed well if caught early. >When we have the technology to readily diagnose a disease, we should be >doing it."

> > So far, the nation's leading public health agency, the Centers for Disease >Control and Prevention, is taking a conservative approach. The CDC does not >yet recommend universal screening using blood tests because of uncertainties >about the natural course of the disease and standardization of testing, and >the need to better educate doctors.

> > The CDC also believes it is premature to do universal genetic testing for >hemochromatosis. Last month, a national panel of experts convened by the CDC >recommended against this strategy, citing questions about the reliability of >the test, the prevalence and impact of inherited mutations, and possible >discrimination against those found to have mutations. The panel's report >appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

> > "We can't translate the genetic test into a risk profile," said CDC >epidemiologist Sharon McDonnell. "Just because we can do a test, doesn't >mean we should."

> > Still, there is no debate over one point: Anyone with a family history or >symptoms of hemochromatosis should have blood tests and, depending on the >results, get treated.

> > "Studies of families that have been treated show that as a rule of thumb, >most health problems will not get worse, some problems get better, and other >problems can be prevented," Block said.

> >Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu >If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:24:03 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Zoe Farris Subject: Re: Underdraaw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > > Well, somebody comes up with the brilliant idea of applying Hayashi's > technology to inducing and training Gens to superproduction, so there will > be excess selyn to run the selyn technology with which the Tecton keeps > out-T Gens happy. The thing is, these Gens do not give transfer to > channels; they do not give transfer at all. They don't even donate to > channels. They are trained from their first "donation" to drain their selyn > directly into selyn batteries. > > All Gen-identified listmembers in chorus: EEUUUWWWWWWWW! GROSS! > I think the Sime-identified listmembers would join in the chorus with this one. Yukkkkkk! Stay Safe, Stay Strong. Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 06:41:30 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Real-life Underdraw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My cousin suffers from hemochromatosis. He can't hold down a job, his periodical fatigue and join and muscle pain prevent that. I went to the doctor for a blood test at one time - he told me "Everything is fine, but stop taking the iron pills" I said "Michael (errr that's my doctor) I don't take iron pills!" Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on that. Thanks for the article Jean Eliza Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:07:47 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: No real reason.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There is no real reason behind this email - I just wanted to use my new name :) Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 07:14:24 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: TECH: Test Drive your Website Comments: cc: jean.lorrah@xxxxxx.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" UNDER THE HOOD Have you created and published a Web site using Netscape Navigator Gold's HTML editor? Take it in for a tune-up at the Web Site Garage. This sites offers a free evaluation of any HTML page on the Web. It will run a diagnosis that includes an overall design critique, a check for dead links, and a gauge of load time and link popularity. To be fair, it's not a very good judge of spelling, but overall the service is useful. If you have a large site, you might be willing to pay for regular monthly maintenance. http://www.websitegarage.com Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 05:42:07 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Re: List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Mary Lou - > Congrats on the new job at the U. And I hope you have a wonderful time >salmon fishing! Sounds fun! (Can we hope for a new story from the trip? >Pretty please?) I'm working on it. Mary Lou ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:30:14 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd think you were resting up from moving and enjoying your in-laws to be :)))) instead of writing.......but hey.....if you're going to finish the story........ yipee! Have a great time while you're there! Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 -----Original Message----- From: Mary Lou Mendum To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 5:35 AM Subject: Re: List >>Mary Lou - >> Congrats on the new job at the U. And I hope you have a wonderful time >>salmon fishing! Sounds fun! (Can we hope for a new story from the trip? >>Pretty please?) > >I'm working on it. > >Mary Lou > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:59:55 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Anne Pinzow Subject: Fwd: Star Trek Film Actress Dies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_903545997_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_903545997_boundary Content-ID: <0_903545997@xxxxxx.m.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_903545997_boundary Content-ID: <0_903545997@xxxxxx.m.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: AOLNews@xxxxxx.com Return-path: Subject: Star Trek Film Actress Dies Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 01:54:47 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Star Trek Film Actress Dies .c The Associated Press BOMBAY, India (AP) -- Persis Khambatta, a former Miss India, who was a navigator in the film ``Star Trek -- The Motion Picture'' died in Bombay following a massive heart attack, newspapers reported today. Khambatta, 49, who died Tuesday in a Bombay hospital, had undergone a by-pass operation in 1983. She began modeling at the age of 13 and went on to win the Miss India beauty crown in 1965, dressed in off-the-rack clothes she bought in London at the last minute. Khambatta starred in a few Hindi language films in India and then went to feature in Hollywood productions, such as ``The Wilby Conspiracy,'' ``Conduct Unbecoming'' and ``Night Hawks.'' Her biggest break as an actress was playing Lt. Aliea in the ``Star Trek'' movie. Her funeral will be held today in Bombay, her family said. She is survived by her mother and a brother. AP-NY-08-19-98 0151EDT Copyright 1998 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press. To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News. --part0_903545997_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 12:58:01 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mary Lou wrote: >I'm working on it. > This is great news. We have some folks on here who have been introduced to S~G through the fan fiction -- particularly Mary Lou's and Mary Lou has developed a fan following all her own. I want to take this opportunity to remind all of you that the fanfic writers don't get anything at all for what they're doing -- except your notes of praise and/or serious and helpful commentary on their stories. The more you comment on their stories, the better writers they will become. A writer needs to be able to see their story through the eyes of the readers, and commentary and discussion of the stories posted on our websites is always welcome on this List. JL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:08:18 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: Underdraaw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Jean Lorrah wrote: > >> >> Well, somebody comes up with the brilliant idea of applying Hayashi's >> technology to inducing and training Gens to superproduction, so there will >> be excess selyn to run the selyn technology with which the Tecton keeps >> out-T Gens happy. The thing is, these Gens do not give transfer to >> channels; they do not give transfer at all. They don't even donate to >> channels. They are trained from their first "donation" to drain their selyn >> directly into selyn batteries. >> JL here -- no, I don't think so. As far as my Vision has ranged into the future of selyn technology, the batteries are the province of the Simes -- specifically Channels. However, some Gens become Orgonics technicians who can "read" fields (the way a Gen does as opposed to the way a Sime does, but how you discover the field configuration is unimportant. The important thing is that you know what the local field configuration is and can work with it correctly because you know what it is.) I'm sure the language develops words for how a Gen senses things that are akin to the words used to describe how a Sime senses things. That said: may I point out that the sf of Hayashi's day might well contain a horror-subgenre that depicts a George Orwell style future where Gens are "used" in such a fashion -- and that those cautionary tales (write some, somebody!) serve to avert that future? In fact, there may be demonstrations against Hayashi's work simply because his name had been sited in some piece of fiction about such a denigration of Gens -- calling Hayashi's work a reversion to the days when Gens were regarded as food animals. JL Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:04:18 +0100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sheila Clark Subject: Re: Enunciation Error (was Reprint Discussion) In-Reply-To: <199808181856.NAA12292@xxxxxx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 18 Aug, Ronnie Bob Whitaker wrote: > Tuesday, 18 August 1998 > Dear Gang, > Zay Or is the CORRECT pronunciation, I have always pronounced it Zee or. > Just as you put SEL in first as the incorrect pronunciation and Seh LINE > as the correct one, I put the incorrect one that I have always used > first with the correct one following, even though I only had two other > examples. Ditto. I've always said 'ZEE-or' and 'SEL-in' - it would have had to be spelled sellyne before I'd've thought to say seh-LINE. I've also always said NA-gur. When it comes down to it, nobody can second-guess the pronunciation the writer gives a word/name; they're always going to use the type of enunciation used in their local area. Incidentally, going back to the reprint issue - I never buy trade pbs - hb or standard pb only. I think the trade ones are a rip-off. Too dear for pb, not quite as durable as hb. But I didn't quite understand the comments about poor paper quality in standard pbs. I have pbs that are 50+ years old that are still in perfect condition despite having been read a fair number of times. I have a 1977 printing of HoZ (first Pocket printing) that's been read I don't know how many times that would still be classified as good - very good in the secondhand market. (I didn't join in this discussion before because being in the UK, I would have to depend on a specialist SF bookshop getting copies of the reprints. But if I got them it would be purely to have the second printing - all my originals are in excellent condition. So I'd appreciate some additional material of any kind to make it really worth while getting them. Internal art, however, I can live without.) Sheila -- Sheila Clark Email sheilac@xxxxxx.co.uk Imagination is much more important than knowledge ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:00:32 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Fwd: Star Trek Film Actress Dies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Persis Khambatta was the reason I shaved my head 6 (?) years ago. An amazingly beautiful woman. She was fantastic in the ST movie, and it seems that she must have been very young to die. However, the topic of that letter almost gave ME a heart attack! I thought it must have been talking about Majel! We share a birthday, and she has ALWAYS been one of my favorite actresses. Any episode with her in it is a good one. Specially in her guise as Luxwana Troy :) Her obvious sence of humour and goodwill is a wonderful asset to any team. Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:30:31 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Enunciation Error (was Reprint Discussion) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:04 19/08/98 +0100, you wrote: >On 18 Aug, Ronnie Bob Whitaker wrote: > >Ditto. I've always said 'ZEE-or' and 'SEL-in' - it would have had to be >spelled sellyne before I'd've thought to say seh-LINE. I've also always >said NA-gur. > >When it comes down to it, nobody can second-guess the pronunciation the >writer gives a word/name; they're always going to use the type of >enunciation used in their local area. Ronnie, you must almost have an Australian accent :) (oh, that's right, we don't have accents). That is exactly the way I pronounce the words. I have trouble saying it seh-Line as it is either too close to sea lion or saline. And pronounceing sectuib with a "tweeb" at the end of it almost seems rude! *sigh* I guess that is one of the major differences between print and movies. In print media you have the choice of how YOU pronounce something, just as you have a choice as to what the charactors look like in your head. Which is another good reason (already mentioned) not to have interior illustrations. The solution to this? Well, as I said before, geographical changes make for saying words different ways. Just a little way over the water from us, in New Zealand, they can't even say "fish and chips" properly! And what they do to the number 6 is a crime! lol "You say NAR-ger and I say nar-GER, You say ZEE-or and I'll say ZAY-or. NAR-ger, nar-GER, ZEE-or, ZAY-or, lets call the whole thing off." (for those of you who don't recognise the reference, it's a song, the words are potato and tomarto. If people can't agree on how to say the names of commonly used vegitables and fruits, what hope have we?) Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:40:43 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Buying books and the SimeGen Website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ARGH! My email got scrambled and I have lost an email that I need - can anyone help me please? It concerned someones doubts about the links on the faqs page about buying books on line. They suggested an alternative and pointed out an erronious link. If the person concerned could please email me again with that information I'd be most grateful :) Thank you Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:47:57 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Enunciation Error (was Reprint Discussion) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LadyEliza wrote: > "You say NAR-ger and I say > nar-GER, You say ZEE-or and I'll say ZAY-or. NAR-ger, nar-GER, ZEE-or, > ZAY-or, lets call the whole thing off." Or as they used to sing way back in the Middle Ages: You say Carmina, and I'll say Burana, Let's call the whole thing Orff. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:26:33 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: writing / artwork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" JL wrote: I want to take this opportunity to remind all of you that the fanfic writers don't get anything at all for what they're doing -- except your notes of praise and/or serious and helpful commentary on their stories. Eliza adds: That's right, and the same applies to the artists of course Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:46:18 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Underdraaw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:08 PM 8/19/98 -0400, Jacqueline wrote: >>Jean Lorrah wrote: >> >>> >>> Well, somebody comes up with the brilliant idea of applying Hayashi's >>> technology to inducing and training Gens to superproduction, so there will >>> be excess selyn to run the selyn technology with which the Tecton keeps >>> out-T Gens happy. The thing is, these Gens do not give transfer to >>> channels; they do not give transfer at all. They don't even donate to >>> channels. They are trained from their first "donation" to drain their selyn >>> directly into selyn batteries. >>> >JL here -- no, I don't think so. As far as my Vision has ranged into the future > of selyn technology, the batteries are the province >of the Simes -- specifically Channels. Yes, that's right--precisely BECAUSE of what happened with these superinduced Gens Tonyo told me about. It becomes part of Tecton bureaucratic requirements that Gens never attempt to transfer selyn to batteries, but only ever donate or give transfer to channels. Things are not forbidden if there is no _reason_ for them to be forbidden--what Tonyo told me is the reason it is forbidden. Of course most people just assume Gens "can't." Not true. It's the results that are too dangerous to allow. >However, some Gens become Orgonics technicians who can "read" fields (the way a > Gen does as opposed to the way a Sime does, but how >you discover the field configuration is unimportant. The important thing is > that you know what the local field configuration is and >can work with it correctly because you know what it is.) Yes--I've been saying this for years, but that is not what this project is about. All Companions have always been able to do this--it simply becomes more scientific in later times. >I'm sure the language develops words for how a Gen senses things that are akin > to the words used to describe how a Sime senses >things. > >That said: may I point out that the sf of Hayashi's day might well contain a > horror-subgenre that depicts a George Orwell style >future where Gens are "used" in such a fashion -- and that those cautionary > tales (write some, somebody!) serve to avert that >future? What this novel is, is an X-File of the Sime~Gen universe. The superinduced Gens are a very secret Tecton project, supervised by hand-picked Tecton channels, NOT ONE OF WHOM IS A HOUSEHOLDER. After it goes horribly awry it is hidden, hushed up. It never gets into the official history books. >In fact, there may be demonstrations against Hayashi's work simply because his > name had been sited in some piece of fiction about >such a denigration of Gens -- calling Hayashi's work a reversion to the days > when Gens were regarded as food animals. Jacqueline, I told you about this story Tonyo told me back in March, when I was driving back from the airport after visiting my mother at Spring Break. He told me this perfectly dreadful story about his next incarnation after the one as Tonyo Logan. Two weeks later, when I got Walking into Clarksdale and heard "Burning Up," I knew I had pulled the ideas from the same place on the astral plane as Page and Plant had pulled that song. Then yesterday I learned more. Tonyo's endowment has to do with transdencance of the space/time continuum. As a Gen, he experiences it as Tonyo as visions of his own past lives--a sort of spiritual time travel. As a Gen again in UNDERDRAW, it takes the opposite form: instead of an internal, mental manifestation, it has an external, physical manifestation: psychokinesis, which he is unable to control. But in his next incarnation after that, Tonyo finally gets his endowment under control: he incarnates as a fully-endowed Tigue channel, and _she_ is one of the pioneers in the astrogation program that takes Keon to the stars. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:43:01 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Underdraaw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:10 PM 8/18/98 -0700, Cheryl wrote: >So...Gens have the endowment too? Not just Channels? [a question that came >up at one point somewhere that we weren't sure about] How did you think Gens like Shanlun and Halimer Grant did all that stuff? The thing is, we have only so far seen Gens who have it under complete control and do not want the rest of the world to know that the endowment exists at all, in either Sime or Gen. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:37:30 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sandy Steiner Subject: Reprint opinions and webtv Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My two cents on the reprint discussion: Personally, I'm heavily in favor of maps, glossary, pronunciation guide, etc. Articles that tie in Tarot to S~G have less interest. More fiction? Great! But if that will slow down the publishing time, I'd rather it be made available to download on the net. As for artwork -- I'd rather have a few good color pictures available on the web than pay extra for interior line drawings. I also wouldn't care to pay more than the 'going rate' for the new books unless they had a *lot* of new material. If it's a straight reprint, I'd buy it at the going rate just for spiffy new cover art. Now on to the second part of my post. This is entirely and utterly off topic, but you lot are so nice I feel okay wasting the space. After years of hearing me talk about it, my mother now wants to get on the web. One of the things she wants to do most is go to the Vatican Library's website and look at pictures of the Sistine Chapel. E-mail would be good too. She doesn't have a lot of money, and is completely computer illiterate. And though she is very intelligent, she is stubbornly reluctant to do more than the minimum of computer learning. She is now considering buying Webtv. I know nothing about this product. What I'd like to ask is this: Is anyone on the list familiar with both Webtv and conventional computer-based web browsing, and can they tell me a little about their experiences. What I'm looking for are testomonial-type statements. "I like webtv because..." or "I tried it and it sucked. You can't do X." I'm now out to explore what yahoo has to say on the matter. Thanks in advance Sandy S >^..^< SandSteinr@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:41:40 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Non-S~G but cool anyway... Content-Type: X-sun-attachment ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Charset: us-ascii X-Sun-Content-Lines: 17 Hiya, Somebody from another mailing list sent me this, and it's pretty cool! (It only works with Windows, though...) --Robyn BE SURE TO FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ! 1. Put one hand flat on the desk 2. Open the attached file 3. Look at the dot in the middle of the picture for at least 20-25 seconds. 4. Then, without moving your hand, look down at your hand... ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: default-app X-Sun-Data-Description: default X-Sun-Data-Name: pinwheel.exe X-Sun-Encoding-Info: uuencode X-Sun-Content-Lines: 493 begin 600 pinwheel.exe M35K" , @xxxxxx. __\' !94 0 $ M 0 M M M M M M M M M M #H4P!4:&ES('!R;V=R86T@xxxxxx.F5Q=6ER97,@xxxxxx. M(("0 .@xxxxxx.$ "@xxxxxx. 0 P'"P M . 0 *0 " ! < 8 (4$E.5TA%14P(4$E.5TA%14P ]? M7U]%6%!/4E1%1%-454(! =73D104D]# @xxxxxx. 0 % H $0 T=$20154T52 M!DM%4DY%3 =724XX-T5- @xxxxxx.!-B(!H @xxxxxx.'%!I;G=H965L("AC*2!4[(U&U!90FO__ "X( > M4+@xxxxxx.!Y0,\"ZR !24+@xxxxxx.@xxxxxx.!0BT;&4(O(T> #P9F#X@xxxxxx.#PKD" -/X4#/ 4%#_ M=@xxxxxx.1FO__ "CP@xxxxxx.\!0FO__ ")1M)0,\E1*])24KKG U*Z E2F@xxxxxx. M #_=M(SP%"X$@xxxxxx.>4+B: E"X %0FO__ #_-L((_W8$FO__ #_-L((C4;( M%E":__\ (M&S"M&R*/$"(M&SBM&RJ/("/\VP@xxxxxx.__\ /\VP@xxxxxx.__\ (E& MQ%#H5 6#Q +_-L((_W;$FO__ #'!AP 0#_-L((,\!0N"4 4"O 4%":__\ M .L5D(U&[A90FN8! "-1NX64)KP 0 C4;N%E SP%!04)K__P @xxxxxx. $; MR??9A $ ZRN-1NX64)K__P C4;N%E":__\ (U&[A90,\!04%"X 0!0FO__ M +P'7'N $ B^5=PU6+[('LNA975IO=!FP%F]Q.'IO=7N:;W09L!9O<3B:; MW5[>D)O'1LH (U^[KYT!8S0CL"EI:6EZ7("D(-^R@xxxxxx.U*YO=1MZ;W%;XF]W8 MF]V^1NF0FXJF1^F>SI";QT;* @xxxxxx.;W4;.F]Q&UIO=7M:; MW0:,!9O<1OB;W5[XF]T&; 6;W%;XF]W8F]V^1NF0FXJF1^F>=P/IH0#_=MS_ M=MK_=MC_=M;H= R#Q B+V)O=!YO<#I0%F]Q.^)O<3@xxxxxx.H=@xxxxxx.=LS1YM'FB8)( MZ?]VW/]VVO]VV/]VUN@xxxxxx.#(/$"(O8F]T'F]P.G 6;W$[XF]Q.!NA$#(MVS-'F MT>:)@xxxxxx.T;,@xxxxxx.* '0#Z2G_F]U&YIO<5OB;W=B;W;Y&Z9";BJ9'Z9YR ^D- M_YO=1LZ;V>";W5[.D)O'1LH! .DI_YO=!GP%F]Q&[IO=7NZ;W09\!9O<1M:; MW5[6F]U&SIO9X)O=7L[IO@xxxxxx.#?LH!=3B;W4;FF]Q6^)O=V)O=OD;ID)N*ID?I MGG(?QT;* ";W4;.F]G@xxxxxx.U6SIO<#J0%F]Q&UIO=7M:0F_]VW/]VVO]VV/]V MUNAM"X/$"(O8F]T'F]P.E 6;W$[XF]Q.!NAO"XMVS-'FT>:)@xxxxxx.W;<_W;: M_W;8_W;6Z#4+@xxxxxx.0(B]B;W0>;W Z;1YHF"2NG_ M1LR;W4;.F]Q&UIO=7M:;W0:,!9O<;OB;W5[XF]GNF]Q6^)O=V)O=OD;ID)N* MID?IGG=C+'1LP )O=1NZ;W$8.F]U>UIO=!HP%F]Q.%IO=7LZ0FXU^ M^+YT!8S0CL"EI:6EZ8?]D%Y?B^5=PU6+[(/L*%=6_W8$N @xxxxxx.4)HZ!0 4)I M!0 _W8$N 0 4)K'!0 4)HP!@xxxxxx. _W8$H<0(F2O"T?A0H<@xxxxxx.F2O"T?A0FO__ M ";WP;(")O<#JP%@xxxxxx.P(B]R;W1^;WP;$")O<#JP%@xxxxxx.P(B]R;W1^0F^BE"8/$ M$(U^\(OP%@xxxxxx.EI:6EH<0(F2O"T?B+R/?8B4;:B4[>B4;7XOE7<.058OL@xxxxxx.P$_W8$_W8$ M_S;$"/\VR B:__\ (E&_%":GP8 (E&_O]V#/]V"O]V"/]V!O]V!.B#_H/$ M"O]V!/]V_IK__P BT;\B^5=PU6+[(/L!H,^R@xxxxxx. =68SP%":$PD (E&_L=& M_ BT;\HQ B4;ZF]]&^IO<#L0%F]P.S 6#[ B+W)O='Y";_W;^Z'#_@xxxxxx.0* MBU[\T>.)A\H(_S;"""O 4%!0FO8( #_1OR#?OP,?+;_=OXSP%!0FC() "+ MY5W#D%6+[(/L E:#/LH( '0DQT;^ "+7O[1X_^WR@xxxxxx.\YK__P QX3*" M_T;^@xxxxxx.^#'SA7HOE7<.058OL@xxxxxx.P2,\")1OB)1OJ+#L0(B4[\BP[("(E._O]V M!+E& !Y1N?__48U6^!92NQ$$4YKY!P BT;^*T;ZB4;NBT[\*T[XB4[PB]"A MQ @xxxxxx.F2O"T?B)1OBAR @xxxxxx.X+2 B4;ZBT;P P;$")DKPM'XB4;\ MB\$#!L@xxxxxx.F2O"T?@xxxxxx. ")1O[_=@xxxxxx. >4+C__U"-1O@xxxxxx.D1 %&:__\ (M& M_@xxxxxx.(E&^@xxxxxx. (E&_HM&_"M&^//_M\H(FEX) #_=M(SP%!0FEH% #_=OHS MP%!0_S;$"/\VR C_=M)04+@xxxxxx. +K, %)0FO__ #_=M+_=M":+@xxxxxx. /]VTIK_ M_P ZP=0Z.K]@xxxxxx.0"_W8.C4;:%E":__\ #/ F>M9D(-^"AMU],<&'@xxxxxx.! #/ M4)K__P Z^2!?@xxxxxx. G4G_W8.N H!'E"X^P >4#/ 4)K__P Z\8M @xxxxxx.TQRT0 M '382'4#Z0#__W8._W8,_W8*_W8(_W8&FO__ "-9OX?74W*"@xxxxxx.0 M ##ZP!;0"3^*\1S1??8-CD&"@xxxxxx.W/#8Y!@xxxxxx.=@xxxxxx.B^#_XUM:0"3^*\1S M&??8-CD&"@xxxxxx.W$#8Y!@xxxxxx.=@xxxxxx.B^!24\N+%E !0G0$_R90 ;#_N[#^N[#] MN[#\M$S-(3/ P@xxxxxx. FO__ +P'1GC :" 8D.4@xxxxxx.)-E0!B3Y6 8D>6 &,!EH! MB19< >@xxxxxx.;C__U":__\ .B2 N@xxxxxx.!+C__U":__\ #/ 4)K__P _S96 9K_ M_P "\!T&_\V5@xxxxxx._-E0!_S9: ?\V6 '_-EP!Z%#U4.B= ;#_Z_C# %6+[/]V M!.AR (OE7<-5B^S_=@xxxxxx."+Y5W#58OL_W8&_W8$Z 0 B^5=PU6+[/]V!(-^ M!@xxxxxx.T!8M&!NL#N $ 4+AB %":__\ (OE7<-5B^R#[ +_=@xxxxxx.#?@xxxxxx. = 6+1@xxxxxx. M [@xxxxxx. "O)45"X8@xxxxxx.0FO__ ")1OZ+T"O B^5=PU6+[(/L K@xxxxxx. %"#?@xxxxxx.= 6+ M1@xxxxxx.[@xxxxxx. %":__\ (E&_HOE7<-5B^S_=@xxxxxx.__\ (OE7<-5B^R#[ *X( !0 M@xxxxxx. '0%BT8$ZP.X 0 KR5%0FO__ ")1OZ+T"O B^5=PU6+[/]V!IK__P MB^5=PXP>IP&X #7-(8D>;@xxxxxx.,!G !#A^X "6Z0PK-(18?BPY.!>,NC@xxxxxx." 2:+ M-BP Q090!8S:,]LV_QY,!7,%%A_I4OXVQ094!8S:NP, -O\>3 46'XX&@xxxxxx.$F MBPXL .,^CL$S_R: /0!T-+D- +Y@xxxxxx.?.F= NY_W\SP/*N=2'KY08>!Q^+][^+ M ;$$K"Q!<@xxxxxx.*L+$%R!0K"JNON%A^^; 6_; 7HKP"^9 6_:@xxxxxx.#58OL M,\GK&E6+[+D! .L258OL5E>Y 'K"%6+[%97N0$!40K)=1Z^N@xxxxxx.N@xxxxxx.^ M:@xxxxxx.:@xxxxxx."!/E@xxxxxx.UM9U!/\67@xxxxxx.:@xxxxxx.:@xxxxxx.^; 6_; 7H3P#H$ !8"N1U M!XM&!+1,S2%?7EW#BPY.!>,'NP( _QY,!1[%%FX!N ES2$?@xxxxxx.ZL 0!T#1Z@xxxxxx. MK0'%%JX!M"7-(1_#._=S"D]/BPWC]O_1Z_+#._=S#H/O!(L%"T4"=/+_'>ON MPP"/!K(!M##-(:.$ ;H! #P"="F.!H(!)HX&+ ",!J@xxxxxx.&L/"!T^SP)=/<\#71O"L!T:T=. MK#P@xxxxxx..@xxxxxx."73D/ UT7 K =%@xxxxxx.(G0D/%QT T+KY#/)0:P\7'3Z/")T! /1Z].+ MP='I$]&H 77*ZP%.K#P-="L*P'0G/")TNCQ<= -"Z^PSR4&L/%QT^CPB= 0# MT>O;B\'1Z1/1J %UTNN7%A^)/I\! ]='T><#UT* XOXKXHO$HZ$!B]@xxxxxx.^Q8' M-HD_0T/%-J4!K*H*P'7Z-HX>@xxxxxx.&^@xxxxxx.K S/ JJP\('3[/ ET]SP-='P*P'1X M-HD_0T-.K#P@xxxxxx..$\"73=/ UT8@xxxxxx.=%X\(G0G/%QT ZKKY#/)0:P\7'3Z/")T M!K!<\ZKKT;!GSJG,&L"*JZ\5.K#P-="X*P'0J/")TMSQ<= .JZ^PSR4&L M/%QT^CPB= :P7/.JZ]FP7-'I\ZISEK BJNO-,\"J%A_'!P _R:R 56+[!Z. M!H(!)HL>+ ".PS/ ,_8S_[G__PO;= XF@xxxxxx.X !T!O*N1JYU^HO'0"3^1HO^ MT>:Y"0#HQ@xxxxxx.0B\;HP "CHP$&'@xxxxxx.?B\^+V#/V7TGC)HL$-CL&8 %U$%%65[]@xxxxxx. M ;D& /.G7UY9= 4FB3]#0ZRJ"L!U^N+:)HD/'UW# +K& >GS!KKV >GM!KHX M NGZ!KI0 NOXNF@xxxxxx.Z_.Z. +IM0:Z4 +K^+IH NOS58OL@xxxxxx.P,4U%65YO9?OZ0 MFXM&_H#,#(E&_)O9;OR;WW[TF]EN_HM&](M6]E]>65N+Y5W# +NT <<'8A7' M1P)L$<='! @xxxxxx.&!!''1PC:$<='"K(:PP!5B^Q3!E&Y 2'#EX!45#H$/M; MCP9> 5F,V@xxxxxx.= 0'6^L%B\'I>OJ+Y5W# ,9&[_^;V<";WLF;V'K$>CA -G_PX,^Q@xxxxxx.<_,*R77HZ&D F]G)ZQ#HR #9_L.# M/L8$ W/SZ% F]C(F]G!F]C(F][!F]GZF][Y"LET YO9X,/H+P";WOGK\.@xxxxxx. M )O>\>OHQD;O!IO8%C0"F]U^]I";]D;W074F6,9&[P7I& V;V>'K",9&[_\* MR77SF]@xxxxxx. *;W7[VD)OV1O=!=,6;VRXF IO9Y9O9R9O9^)O=?O:0FXIF]Y[V MQ )T!9O>Z>L#F]W9F]GRBL30X-#XT,#0[-#LT-!(J )U YO9R4BH!'4#F]G@xxxxxx. M+ *H!'4)F]G)F]G@xxxxxx.G)PYO9P(/L"HO0'($6.E;_\-5B^R#[ :+7@xxxxxx.!YB+V/:'VP(!= 6-1R#K!HM>!(H' MF#UE '02_T8$BUX$B@xxxxxx.8B]CVA]L"!'7NBUX$B@xxxxxx.(1O[&!R[_1@xxxxxx.7@xxxxxx.!XA& M_(I&_H@xxxxxx.BD;\B$;^BUX$_T8$@xxxxxx.\ =>*+Y5W#D%6+[(/L!.L(@xxxxxx.\N= O_1@xxxxxx. M7@xxxxxx./P!U\/]&!( _ '1)ZPV /V5T$( _170+_T8$BUX$@xxxxxx.\ =>N+P_].!(E& M_NL$D/].!(M>!( _,'3U@xxxxxx.\N=0/_3@xxxxxx.7O[_1OZ*!_]&!(M>!(@xxxxxx."L!U[(OE M7<.058OL@xxxxxx.9O^><@BX 0"+Y5W#D"O MB^5=PU6+[%=6BT8$2'0S2'08_W8*Z$8)@xxxxxx.0"B]B;W0?$7@xxxxxx.;)MD?ZQ&0_W8* MZ-X/@xxxxxx.0"Q%X&FR;;/Y";7E^+Y5W#_W8*Z!8)@xxxxxx.0"B_#$?@xxxxxx.EI:6E7E^+Y5W# M58OL@xxxxxx.P$5U: /IX" '0KBQZ@xxxxxx.(E>_H,_+74%O@xxxxxx. ZP(K]@xxxxxx.V!E:#?@xxxxxx. ?@xxxxxx.X M 0#K Y KP%#H& /K28M>!/]W!O]W!/]W O\WZ!,/@xxxxxx.0(B4;^4(M&"$!0@xxxxxx. M 'X%N $ ZP(KP(M>_HE&_(,_+74%N $ ZP(KP -&_ -&!E#HQ@xxxxxx.Q :+=@xxxxxx.+ M7OZ#/RUU!,8$+4:#?@xxxxxx. ?@xxxxxx.1 &(!(U$ 8OPQ@xxxxxx.@xxxxxx.4( ^G@xxxxxx.!&\#WV -& M" /&4.C[!X/$!(OP@xxxxxx. '0#Q@xxxxxx.1HM>_HM?!H _,'1%BU[^BW\"3WD)B\?W MV(OXQ@xxxxxx._9'P1B\>Y9 "9]_D !(O'F??YB_I&@xxxxxx.\*?!&+Q[D* )GW^0 $ MB\>9]_F+^HO'1@xxxxxx.$BT8&7E^+Y5W#D%6+[(/L L8&G@xxxxxx.!_W8*_W8(_W8&_W8$ MZ,+^Q@xxxxxx.> @xxxxxx.+Y5W#D%6+[(/L!E: /IX" '0LBQZ@xxxxxx.(E>_H,_+74&O@xxxxxx. ZP.0 M*_8#=@xxxxxx.AH (Y1@xxxxxx. P ]Y#Q@xxxxxx. ZSB+7@xxxxxx.=P;_=P3_=P+_-^C+#8/$ M"(E&_E"+V(M' @xxxxxx.&"%"#/RUU!K@xxxxxx. .L#D"O T8&4.B/!X/$!HMV!HM>_H,_ M+74$Q@xxxxxx._ @xxxxxx._#U:X 0!0Z'D!Q@xxxxxx.D -W H-^" !^1E:X 0!0Z&$! MQ@xxxxxx._H-_ @xxxxxx.],8 ^G@xxxxxx. = >+1P+WV.L-BT<"]]@xxxxxx.1@xxxxxx. XM&"(E&"%90 MZ#$!_W8(N# 4%;HT@xxxxxx.#Q :+1@xxxxxx.B^5=PY!5B^R#[ +&!IX" ?]V"/]V!O]V M!.C[_L8&G@xxxxxx. B^5=PU6+[(/L!(M>!/]W!O]W!/]W O\WZ/$,@xxxxxx.0(HZ (B]B+ M1P)(HZ "4_]V"(,_+74%N $ ZP(KP -&!HE&_E#HL :#Q :+'J (BT<"2(E& M_#L&H )^!+ !ZP(JP**B HM&_*.@xxxxxx.CW\_WP%.T8(?!?_=@xxxxxx.=@xxxxxx.=@xxxxxx._=@xxxxxx. M4OZ#Q B+Y5W#D( ^H@xxxxxx. =!*+7O[_1OZ /P!U]8M>_L9'_@xxxxxx._=@xxxxxx.=@xxxxxx._=@xxxxxx. M-_^+Y5W#D%6+[(-^"&5T!H-^"$5U%?]V#/]V"O]V!O]V!.C>_(OEB^5=PX-^ M"&9U#O]V"O]V!O]V!.@xxxxxx._NOF_W8,_W8*_W8&_W8$Z O_B^5=PY!5B^R#?@xxxxxx. M=!?_=@xxxxxx.HB06+Y4!0_W8&BT8$ T8&4.A$!HOE7<($ %6+[(/L$H ^] 0 = KH M @xxxxxx.&!M@xxxxxx. >M9F]G)F]T6J *;V\$.)'J8"Q@xxxxxx.7 M @xxxxxx.!/VQO=0^ ?P)G=0D\ G4%Q@xxxxxx.7 @xxxxxx. /M@xxxxxx. '48F]U&!)O='J@xxxxxx.@xxxxxx.\, 70) MF]U&#)O='K "EK_ C/)BD@xxxxxx. _G_)9O=V)O9[NLDF]GDF]U^]I";]D;W 74* MF]W8F]T&[ 3K"YO=V)O=!NP$F]G@xxxxxx.T>N *XI )0Z/$*@xxxxxx.0""\!U,+ A@xxxxxx.[7 M @!U!X,^I (#<@*P(IBC? '1YHNTQ@(+]G00BU[PZ$H%N]0"Z$0%5N@xxxxxx.\U]> MF]T&N *;W19R 9O;XND*_T55B^P>!E!345(RY 7D_U#HEP..V%CHUO):65M8 M!Q]=3_O]&_L8'+HM>!(I' YA(B4;\ M*48(ZQ.+7OK_1OJ*!XM>_O]&_H@xxxxxx._T[\@xxxxxx.\ '7GZPJ0BU[^_T;^Q@xxxxxx.P_TX( M>?*#?@xxxxxx.= R+7O[_1O[&!T7K"I"+7O[_1O[&!V6+7@xxxxxx.!TB)1O@xxxxxx.P'T0]]B) M1OB+7O[_1O[&!RWK"8M>_O]&_L8'*SWH WP9N>@xxxxxx.F??Y!#"+7O[_1OZ(!XM& M^)GW^8E6^(M&^+ED )GW^00PBU[^_T;^B >+1OB9]_F)5OB+PKD* )GW^00P MBU[^_T;^B >+1OB9]_F PC"+7O[_1OZ(%XM>_O]&_L8' (M&!HOE7<-5B^R# M[!J+7@xxxxxx.=PC_=P;_=P3_=P+_-XM&" O ?0(KP%"X 0!0C4;F4.C^!?]V"/]V M!HU&YE#H!0"+Y5W#D%6+[(/L"HM&!HE&_HM>!(L/B4[XC4\$B4[Z@xxxxxx.\"+74) MB]C&!RU B4;^@xxxxxx.X 'Y+BUX$BD<#F#M&^'X#BT;XB4;\*4;XBD;\*$<#ZQ"+ M7OK_1OJ*!XM>_O]&_H@xxxxxx.BT;\_T[\"\!UYH-^^ !T%_].^(M>_O]&_L8',.OL MBU[^_T;^Q@xxxxxx.P@xxxxxx. 'YJBU[^_T;^Q@xxxxxx.NBUX$BD<#F"M&^/?8 48(ZPJ0BU[^ M_T;^Q@xxxxxx.PBT;X_T;X"\!\[8M>!(I' YB)1OSK$9"+7OK_1OJ*!XM>_O]&_H@xxxxxx. MBT;\_T[\"\!UYNL)BU[^_T;^Q@xxxxxx.PBT8(_TX("\!_[8M>_L8' (M&!HOE7<-5 MB^R#[!J#?@xxxxxx. ?P7'1@xxxxxx.! (M>!/]W"/]W!O]W!/]W O\W_W8(*\!0C4;F4.B] M!(-^YOQ^"(M&YCE&"'T9_W8*BT8(2%#_=@xxxxxx.-1N90Z"G]@xxxxxx.0(B^5=PXM&""M& MYE#_=@xxxxxx.-1N90Z)G^B^5=PY!5B^R#?@xxxxxx. :#?@xxxxxx.=17_=@xxxxxx.=@xxxxxx.=@xxxxxx._=@xxxxxx. MK/R+Y8OE7<.#?@xxxxxx. :#?@xxxxxx.=0[_=@xxxxxx.=@xxxxxx._=@xxxxxx.O[KX/]V#/]V"O]V!O]V M!.A'_XOE7<.0+H ^-B*X= .,T,,NH3,V([ BWX$,\"Y M___RKO?129&+^EW# %6+[%=6BW8$ZP%&B@xxxxxx.CVA]L""'7S*\!04%;HQ?^# MQ )05NC/#X/$"(O8N*((5HOXC7<('@xxxxxx.EI:6E7EY?B^5=PU6+[%=6BUX(BW\& MBUX$Q@xxxxxx.PC7!( _,74)BUX(_T<"ZPR0B\- 4%/H#/^# MQ 1>7XOE7<.058OLB]>+WHS8CL"+=@xxxxxx.+?@xxxxxx.QXM.".,J._YV%HO& \$[^',. MB\<#\0/Y3D_]\Z3\ZQ"+QZ@xxxxxx.LB]>,V([ MBWX$B]^+3@xxxxxx.8I&!HK@xxxxxx.\;V7[Z MBE[Z@xxxxxx.LXMQ.)7OB;V6[XN_$#F]GEB5;PF]U^]L9&[P";V;V>6;W7[V MF]G)BF[WT.70_=#%BL4D#]>*X-#AT/G0P8K!) _7T.30Y K$F('A! 2+V@xxxxxx.8 M@\,0_R?H/P";V;W=B;W=B;V>[#F]W8F]W8F]GHP^@xxxxxx. )O> MPC7 .L(,NV;V>J;WLGH'0&;V>B;WL'V1OB; MWO'VPD!U YO9_0KM= .;V>#I;?^;V<";VSXJ!)";H3($@xxxxxx.1_+?\_C1Z-'HB]B*ARH$(N@xxxxxx.O;= =+"H\J!.OU M"LEU&IO9R9O9X>EY_X ^\ ,!= KI)O_&1N\"F]G Z33_@xxxxxx.[P P%T]IO=V)O= MV)O;+@xxxxxx.$QD;O L.;V>V;V2;W7[VD)OV1O=!==&;V?'#F]GLZP.;V>V; MV2;W7[VD)N* M5O>;V2;W7[VF]GAF]GPP\W,S,S,S,S,^S_-S,S,S,S,S,S,^S]5 MB^R#[ Q65QXSP(=&"(E&_HM^!(M&$C;&10(@xxxxxx.L2 = R 9A-_-L9% BTE_W\+ MP'40BT8*"T8,"T8."T80=$WK93W_?W5@xxxxxx."T8,"T8.BT80=1>^N@xxxxxx. (!T M&CT P'4*OL $-H!] BUT"[ZL!*D 0'0#OK,$-L<% 0 6!XU] S/)B@xxxxxx.\Z0S MP.EY 8M^!#;'!0 -L9% B VQD4# #;&100 Z5P!,_^*?A&+1A*+R+H03??B MD;!-]N0#R!/7L)KVYP/($_J!Z?02@xxxxxx.]#$U?WWXU&"!905[@xxxxxx. %#HA@xxxxxx.@xxxxxx. M_S]R$$>-1@xxxxxx.64+@xxxxxx.PY0Z$4'Z^F+7@xxxxxx.+1O[W1@xxxxxx. '0& \=Y NN /14 M=@xxxxxx.X%0")1OY B4;TBT82+?X_]]@xxxxxx.M>$(M.#HM6#(MV"HM^" K =!#1Z]'9 MT=K1WM'?T-S^R'7P%@xxxxxx.)?O:+?@xxxxxx.?02'?O8RP(E>$HE.$(E6#HEV#(E^"HAF M"=#DT=?1UM'2T='1T]#0T.31U]'6T=+1T='3T- "9@xxxxxx.@xxxxxx.@xxxxxx.X33A 3 M7A(4 -#DT=?1UM'2T='1T]#0!#"'?O:JAW[V_T[T=:"+?O:+=@xxxxxx.[P(\-7(J MC4P$ZPLF@xxxxxx.TY=1$FQ@xxxxxx.=O%')L8%,#;_!";^!2OYB]]#-HA< ^L5BT[^ MXPBP,/WSKOQU ^F/_D$VB$P#N $ 'U]>B^5=PA 58OL@xxxxxx.P:@xxxxxx.!0!T:KL+ M /\>3 4+P'1?F]E^_)O;XYO9Z)O9[IO>^9O9P)O9X)O>V9O=?OZ;BT;^GL<& MQ@xxxxxx. '4NC-".P)O9Z)LFVW[RF]EVYIN+1NPE#P"[B2%#@xxxxxx.,/.\/'!L8$ @xxxxxx.T M!L<&Q@xxxxxx. )O;XIO9;OR+Y5W# %6+[%97_(S8CL"-=@xxxxxx.T 0VI3:E-J4VI;[0 M!%7HO0!=O]@xxxxxx.B\BLF)'SI)&JO\@xxxxxx.,O^)'8E5 HE-!,=%!M@xxxxxx.B\=?7HOE7<-5 MB^PSP(OE7 X0]T#;X:!?;!"'4-OA,%ZPB^ M(07K [XG!;H! BTP&@&0'?[,@BP0+1 (+ M1 2+T M$!G2>"\EY K,M]]'WP?!_]]%TGE.;V3XO!9";4* O!:(Q!5B;V2XQ M!9O=!)O9P)O;/)";,_^^_02LBOBMB\BZ$$WWXI&P3?;D \@xxxxxx.":]N<#R!/Z M@xxxxxx.GT$H'?0Q-7]]^^]@xxxxxx. J[2B)?FR[;+YO8V9O=/BT%D)OV!BX%070+1[M4 M(ILNVR^;WLE7F]L\F]DN+P60FZV7K96MDJV3K9&!Z?X_]]F+]S/ XPS1Z]': MT=W1WM#N#0'&6UY5##@xxxxxx.*:^> M0/F_H$3M@xxxxxx./@xxxxxx.Y0+\\U:;/_TD?>,+30&_&X(SI@xxxxxx.E'NI.H0;R%:U4G.8WW M<.!\0KS=CM[YG?OK?JI10Z'F=N/,\BDOA($F1"@xxxxxx.ZKXKA#CQ<3Z1.NGU//W MZ^%*>I7/167,QY$.IJZ@xxxxxx.>.C1@xxxxxx.PQU@xxxxxx.LE(35A"Y*>3.3LUN++M4TVG MY5T]Q5T[BYZ26O]=IO"A(,!4I8PW8=']BUJ+V"5=B?G;9ZJ5^/,GOZ+(7=V M;DS)FY<@B@xxxxxx.]"M>C<#T*UZ/X/UID.]]/C9=N M$H/U/\/3+&49XE@xxxxxx.'Q/] /(X1'&T>LQ:?N/T"FMFELKP6]-X;K/S,]O$)Z MY=64O];G/\+]_;)/Y+$4SMU1,T4OIJO/]YG MNI0Y1:T>L<^4/R0CQN*\NCLQ88MZ/V%56<%^L5-\$KM?/]?N+XT&OI*%%?M$ M/R0_I>DYI2?J?Z@xxxxxx.WVLH>2\9'Q&T-U5/F-[!LPC5'>#_Y&!/9'Z.AEZ8R5# M,<"L/"&)T3B"1Y>X /W7.]R(6 @xxxxxx.L>CCAJ8#.\:$14('MIEU-]LN.C-Q'-(C MVS+N29!:.::'OL!7VJ6"IJ*U,N)HLA&G4I]$6;<0+"5)Y"TV-$]3KLYK)8]9 M!*3 WL)]^^C&'I[GB%I7D3R_4(,B&$Y+96+]@xxxxxx.O!I1]$>0MWI_.TL@xxxxxx.W:;8 M"E6+[(/L!E97BWX&NWXC"_]T>GD%N]HD]]_'1OHT)X-^! !U(,=&^BHGF]E^ M_I";BT;^#3@xxxxxx.B4;\F]EN_,1V")LFVVP"5U^#PU0+_W0CB\?1[]'OT>]7)0< M=.I3T.#0X(K@xxxxxx. "Q#+D ]C_9OI;Z]6#?@xxxxxx.=1:;V^*;V6[^Q'8(FR;;? (F MQP0 )";7UZ+Y5W"" ";+MMO IO>R>O/+O]W"B[_=P@xxxxxx.W<&+O]W!"Z+3P(N MBP<] ("#T?]14(O$_W8*_W8(%E#H"P"#Q SKGNEL >E4 56+[(/L$E97N0D MC-".P(U^[C/ \ZO%=@xxxxxx.?@xxxxxx.1 HFBUT*B\@xxxxxx.A (")3OZZ_W\CPCO"=,,C MVCO:=+V+T /3@xxxxxx.K]OW>S@xxxxxx.J_/W:P"\!U$4*+! M$ @xxxxxx.! M$!@xxxxxx."'2;"]MU M%D(FBP4F"T4")@xxxxxx.!"8+108F"T4(=(&!ZOX_B50*@xxxxxx.<(N04 C5[N4597)HL% M]R0V 068/# H/& H/!_W76BW8(BU;PBT[R MBU[TBT;VBW[X@xxxxxx. '\4ZU_19N[1TM'1T=/1T-'7_TP*=$T+_WGJ@xxxxxx.N (!R M'W<&]\(! '07@xxxxxx.(!@xxxxxx.$ @xxxxxx., %0 @xxxxxx.< J#?OP =)B#3NX!ZY(SP(E$"HE$"(E$!HE$!(E$ HD$Z[ZX_W\+1OZ)1 HS MP(E$"(E$!HE$!(E$ HD$ZZ, 58OL@xxxxxx.PT5E<>Q78&,\")1O*,7O")=NZ)1NR) M1NB)1NK'1N89 !8'C7[,K#P@xxxxxx./L\"73W/ IT\SP-=.\*P'4#Z>\!/"MT"3PM M=0;'1NP @xxxxxx.P\,'($/#EV$#PN=>.L/#!RWCPY=]KK%:P\,'3["L!U!TZ)=N[I MO@xxxxxx.\+G42K/].ZCPP=/C_1NH*P'3FZRNL/#!R(3PY=QTL,*K_3N9U[ZS_1NH\ M,'($/#EV]/].ZCPN=!KK(3PN=1VL/#!R&#PY=Q0L,*K_3NK_3N9U[*P\,'($ M/#EV]_=>YH-&YAF-7/^)7NXSVSQ%= X\970*/$1T!CQD= +K4JP\*W0)/"UU M!L=&Z/__K#PPZ"M>Z %>ZDZ)=NZ#?N8 =0/IY@xxxxxx.FQ@xxxxxx.3X-^ MYAAV%R:*!2;&!0#_3N;_1NI// 5R%";^!>L5@xxxxxx.J '0/ZP=/_T[F_T;J)H ] M '3S%HU&S%#_=N:-1O10Z.,"BT;J"\!T'CU0%'P#Z:, /;#K?P/IE0 6C4;T M4/]VZO]V!.CL^XM&_(M>^HM.^(M6]H%^] " B^5=P@xxxxxx.@xxxxxx.R!,1^ M#C/ N04 \ZOKUH-.\@xxxxxx.K[H-.\@xxxxxx.%=@xxxxxx.W\+1NR)1 C'1 8 @xxxxxx./ B40$B40" MB03KKU6+[(/L!KBR"!Y0C4;Z%E >_W8$*\!0Z+ "B4;^BT;Z*T8$HZP(QP:J M" ]D;^!'0&QP:J" "]D;^ G0%@xxxxxx.ZJ" 'V1OX!= 6 #JL( ;BJ"(OE7<.0 M * "0 #(!4 ^@xxxxxx. 0)P,0 M %###T D]!) " EI@xxxxxx. (+R^&4 $O\D;CC1 M *'MS,X;PM-.0)ZU<"NHK<6=:4#])>4:CD\9ZX- UY5##@xxxxxx.*:^>0*!$[8$2 MCX&"N4#5IL__21]XPM- X(SI@xxxxxx.E'NI.H06M5)SF-]W#@xxxxxx.$*.WOF=^^M^JE%# M=N/,\BDOA($F1,W,S,S,S,S,^S\*UZ-P/0K7H_@xxxxxx..]]/C9=N$H/U/RQE&>)8 M%[?1\3\CA$<;1ZS%I^X_MFELKP6]-X;K/[Q">N75E+_6YS_]SF&$$7?,J^0_ M6^%-Q+Z4E>;)/U,[=43-%+Z:KS^ZE#E%K1ZQSY0_QN*\NCLQ88MZ/UG!?K%3 M?!*[7S\OC0:^DH45^T0_I>DYI2?J?Z@xxxxxx.Z'DO&1\1M#=53X&S"-4=X/_D8$] M.AEZ8R5#,<"L/-$X@xxxxxx.7N #]USN[7BL+_WD%NQPL]]]77X'#1@xxxxxx.+_W0GB\?1 M[]'OT>]7)0< =.E3T."*X-#@xxxxxx. "Q#+D ]B;+MLOF][)6^O0PU6+[(/L#%97 MBT8&B4;TQ'8(,\"+^(O8B\B+T":*%$;K.HE^_HE&_(E>^HE.^(E6]NA[ .AX M -6]A-.^!->^A-&_!-^_NAF "8"%$: U@xxxxxx.#T0"#TP 5 "#UP#_3O1UP;Y. M0.L-B_B+PXO9B\HSTH/N$ O_=.]X#]'BT='1T]'0T==."_]Y\5:+=@xxxxxx. M-HE\"#:)1 8VB5P$-HE, C:)%(O&C-)?7HOE7<(( -'BT='1T]'0T=?# %6+ M[(/L#A:-1O90_W8,_W8*_W8(_W8&_W8$Z+'ZF]E^\IO;;O:+7O*#RQB)7O2; MV^+$7@xxxxxx.V6[TFR;='YO=?O2;V^*;V6[R"\!U%XM>]#/ ]\,8 '0,N ( ]\,( M '4#N $ B^5=P@xxxxxx.Y! 4 %![4$!0 4'L 0% M!0=H! 4 %!V4$!0 4'800% !0==! 4 %!T8$!0 4'0P0% M !0<_! 4 %!SP$!0 4'. 0% !0M P4 %!ZD#!0 4'I@xxxxxx.% !0>B P4 % M!X\#!0 4'C ,% !0>( P4 %!X0#!0 4'=P,% !0=T P4 M %!W #!0 4'; ,% !0=H P4 %!V,#!0 4'7P,% !0=; M P4 %!U8#!0 4'2 ,% !0=% P4 %!T$#!0 4', ,% M!0A @xxxxxx. %!YT"!0 4'F (% !0>4 @xxxxxx. %!Y "!0 M 4'BP(% !0>' @xxxxxx. %!X,"!0 4'?P(% !0=T @xxxxxx. %!W$" M!0 4';0(% !0=? @xxxxxx. %!UP"!0 4'6 (% !0=4 @xxxxxx. % M!S$"!0 4'+0(% !0#P4 %!^$/!0 4'Y \% !0?G#P4 %!^H/!0 4' M\ \% !0<)$ 4 %!QX0!0 4'(1 % !0#$ 4 % M!X@xxxxxx.0 4'BQ % !0>.$ 4 %!Y$0!0 4'H! % !0>E$ 4 M %!Z@xxxxxx.0 4'OA % !0?&$ 4 %!\\0!0 4'TA % !0?5 M$ 4 %!]D0!0 4'(1(% !0?N$04 %!^L1!0 4'YA$% M!0?C$04 %!^L5!0 4'[A4% !0?S%04 %!_85!0 4'%!8% M !0X%@xxxxxx. %!\,6!0 M 4'QQ8% !0?9%@xxxxxx. %!]P6!0 4'X18% !0?D%@xxxxxx. %!_ 6 M!0 4'\Q8% !0?Z%@xxxxxx. %!_T6!0 4' A<% !0<%%P4 % M!TH7!0 4'3Q<% !0=4%P4 %!Z0Z' 4 M %!\ '04 %!Y\=!0 4' MJ!T% !0>R'04 %![4=!0 4'NQT% !0>^'04 %!\<=!0 M 4'RAT% !0?2'04 %!]D=!0 4'WQT% !0?B'04 %!RD> M!0 4'+!X% !0= '@xxxxxx. %!TT>!0 4'4!X% !0=3'@xxxxxx. % M!UT>!0 4'8!X% !0=C'@xxxxxx. %!V8>!0 4'!0 4'?AX% !0>%'@xxxxxx. %!Y,>!0 4'F1X% !0>@xxxxxx. M'@xxxxxx. %!Z,>!0 4'NAX% !0>]'@xxxxxx. %!\ >!0 4'W!X% M!0??'@xxxxxx. %!^(>!0 4'YQX% !0?J'@xxxxxx. %!_8>!0 4'^1X% M !0?\'@xxxxxx. %!_\>!0 4'"!\% !0<+'P4 %!PX?!0 4' M$1\% !0<5'P4 %!Q@xxxxxx.!0 4'+2(% !0?1(@xxxxxx. %!^ B!0 M 4'Y2(% !0?H(@xxxxxx. %!^LB!0 4'*B,% !0 0,!@xxxxxx. !< P$B ( ( # 9 * P 8 ,!MP4! M "P P$P" $ +0 # 9@xxxxxx. P > ,! PD" "< P%\"0( * # =$ @xxxxxx.I ,! M&0$" "H P%S!@xxxxxx. ,P # ;L& 0 T ,!;0 " *T !0?^! 8 %!]<$!@xxxxxx. M 4'O00& !0=M! 8 %!TL$!@xxxxxx. 4'N@xxxxxx.& !0>4 P8 %!TP# M!@xxxxxx. 4'-0,& !0>I @xxxxxx. %!W@xxxxxx.!@xxxxxx. 4'9 (& !0Q & !0>5$ 8 M %!^$0 @xxxxxx. 4'Y1 & !0<^$@xxxxxx. %!_(1!@xxxxxx. 4'5Q8& !0=W M%@xxxxxx. %!^@xxxxxx.@xxxxxx. 4'R!P& !0?G'08 %!VH>!@xxxxxx. 4'IQX& M!0?N'@xxxxxx. %!P,?!@xxxxxx. 4'UB(& !0?N(@xxxxxx. %!S(C!@xxxxxx. 4'3R,& M !0?#)@xxxxxx. %!R G!@xxxxxx. ,!E0 " #D P%F"0$ 1 # 4$' 0!% ,! M2P$" $( P%A 0( 1 # 2H( 0!7 4')B,# !0<_(P, %!RHG P M 4'72T# P'-!0( 40 # 8P' @xxxxxx.5 ,!50H# %L P':"0( :P # :$! M @xxxxxx.L ,! P(" &T M M M M M M M M M M !0 M !!8F]U="XN+@xxxxxx. $-L;W9E<@xxxxxx.0:6YW:&5E;" M+2!0 M6]U2!4U _4#TD=NAY3'5,=;!U3';H>NAY)';H> M!6AY<&]T ! (1 -0/U ])';H>U _4#TD=NAY3'5,=;!U3';H>NAY) M';H>-<)H(:+:#\G^/P $T !/ W-I;@xxxxxx. " $& !004AV+'5X0 M V-O

!Y !Z CH@xxxxxx. M " @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx."@xxxxxx."@xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx. 0$! 0$! 0 M$! 0$! 0$(2$A(2$A(2$A(00$! 0$! 0@xxxxxx.!@xxxxxx.! 0$! 0$! 0$! 0$! 0$! M 0$! 0$0$! 0$!""@xxxxxx."@xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." @xxxxxx." A 0$! @xxxxxx. M M M ,#_ M_S7":"&BV@xxxxxx.)_S\!! ($! 0"! 0 @xxxxxx. (&! @xxxxxx.]_W*?7N85F M<;$-0 " #4#W-D,,F!GVE?T_ -P;W< " 0 M "!0"D'8D>21VQ'H\>,AY)'8P>4QU3'6P=4QVQ'GH=21VQ'@xxxxxx.VBQW1'@-L;V< &!@xxxxxx.@-E>' M 0 ! @xxxxxx.P'64=BQW*'@xxxxxx.U-.04X&,2-13D%.!3$C24Y&!3$C24Y$ M #________O M?P &,2-33D%.!C$C44Y! M3@xxxxxx.TE.1@xxxxxx.TE.1 R$P" 9B0 @xxxxxx. W><-!0P _/________Y# #_ M_P %H7__\ / )\ GP"0 "&#T A"R( &Z&&_#Y(2E M !)!+U*4<'@xxxxxx._7:>HXQ7[2_ M $ #@xxxxxx.S,S,S,S,^,_,S,S,S,STS])!+U*4<'P/U5555555;4_ M !X $1/34%)3B!E&%C= T* &L M338Q,# Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: Reprint opinions and webtv Sandy writes: > > After years of hearing me talk about it, my mother now wants to get on the > web. One of the things she wants to do most is go to the Vatican Library's > website and look at pictures of the Sistine Chapel. E-mail would be good too. > She doesn't have a lot of money, and is completely computer illiterate. And > though she is very intelligent, she is stubbornly reluctant to do more than > the minimum of computer learning. > > She is now considering buying Webtv. > > I know nothing about this product. What I'd like to ask is this: Is anyone on > the list familiar with both Webtv and conventional computer-based web > browsing, and can they tell me a little about their experiences. What I'm > looking for are testomonial-type statements. "I like webtv because..." or "I > tried it and it sucked. You can't do X." > > I'm now out to explore what yahoo has to say on the matter. > My take on WebTV from those I know who have it is that it would probably be good for your mother as you describe her. The folks who seem to get the most out of it are older folks who don't want to invest much time in learning about computers but who want to see what this whole Web thing is all about. WebTV has a lot of limitations, but it sounds like those limitations won't affect what your mom wants to do. My boss' parents (who I believe are in their 80s) got WebTV and they like it for just these reasons. Hope this helps some, --Robyn PS: WebTV's FAQ is at http://www.webtv.com/ns/tune/faq.html Naturally it's pretty WebTV-positive, but it might answer some of your questions. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:48:28 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Reprint opinions and webtv Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I know nothing about this product. What I'd like to ask is this: Is anyone on >the list familiar with both Webtv and conventional computer-based web >browsing, and can they tell me a little about their experiences. What I'm >looking for are testomonial-type statements. "I like webtv because..." or "I >tried it and it sucked. You can't do X." > The lenght and depth of my knowledge of web TV is how to get onto IRC with it :) If your mother wants to know that, I can help! lol Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:32:50 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Simelan Pronunciation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: I've been culling out and filing the commentaries on what you might consider value-added to the reprints, and I found a thread of commentary on PRONUNCIATION. This is a topic that comes up all the time. That's why I made the website with the sound files of me saying the words outloud. http://members.aol.com/Zeor1/ That website is titled Nivet Simelan -- because it's the Nivet accent. There's a whole world full of little Sime Territories out there, and they all have unique accents -- those near each other absorb each other's speech habits, and the local surrounding Gen Territories provide more overlay for the local Simelan accent (since so many Simes come from out-T). So there is no "wrong" way to pronounce any of these words. You ALL have it right. Relax. Read the books in your own Territory's accent and don't fret so much. Remember that if you go far enough around the world, you'll come to a Sime Territory where the "accent" has drifted into a whole new dialect -- and the dialect drifted, shifted, absorbed other languages and LIVED as languages do especially with short-lived native speakers who probably don't read, write or have much contact with people far away -- so in the end you can have two Sime Territories from different places around the world where the language actually is the same language -- but it's virtually incomprehensible from one dialect to another. (especially the spoken language -- the written language might look comprehensible, but the spoken language wouldn't sound comprehensible). Just think what a difference we have within the USA in our dialects. Now we have a large number of Australians on this List, and we're beginning to learn about dialect. You just try telling those Aussies they don't pronounce things "correctly" and see how far you get! And remember what those Aussies said the next time you have a problem about the 'correct' way to pronounce a Simelan word. There IS no incorrect way to pronounce any of the established Simelan words. (the characters in the books might disagree with that but we can ignore them.) JL Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:59:47 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: theresa sorrell Subject: Re: Reprint opinions and webtv Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I have webtv. Some of the advantages are: It is fast for getting sites. You have up to six e-mail addresses for your webtv. You can build websites. They have lots of helpful people if you have a problem. There are three types of Webtv. Web by Sony is a basic unit around $100. No printer ports so surfing and mail and some website building ability I believe. Very limiting because you can't down load anything. Magnavox and Mitsubishi are the other two with printer ports. I don't know much about anything but the Mitusubishi Web plus since that's what I have. I have a tv window so I can be on line and watch tv without needing another tv or a monitor. It's fast or faster than most computers. It won't take Java so I'm locked out of the chat room at Sim-gen. I have no storage capacity beyond saving mail and that's got about 100/150 letter storage. If its on the screen I can print. I have a cannon 4300 bw/color bubble jet. It will also take some Hewlett packart and other cannon printers at this time. There is an optional wireless keyboard otherwise your remote does everything including giving you an on screen keyboard to use to get to websites not bookmaked or as we say in the Favorite file. The main thing I miss that a computer has is the ability to download into disc or hard drive which since I really don't know that much about computers I'm not missing yet. My unit with Mitsubishi Webplus, keyboard and printer ran me right around $500. The Magnavox is around $200 but does not include the keyboard but does have the printer ports for when you need them. Monthly cost $19.95 going up in January to $24.95. Both Sears and Ultimate Electronics let me play with their store units. I was impressed because I had just gotten off the library computer and some of my websites I had surfed had side scrolling print that was hard to read and impossible to print out at the library. If something is off screen the web reconfigures so there is nothing that is not on the screen. Overall I'm happy. In a year or two I'll upgrade to a computer, but will probably keep the web also. I have a 25 inch moniter after all. Starsinger Please forgive the length of this post. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:11:58 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Reprint opinions and webtv MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sandy--Oooh! I didn't know the Vatican Library _had_ a website! Now that I know, I will hunt it down and add it to my webpage... I think you can check out WebTV at www.webtv.com. All I know about them is that they offer email, because a friend of mine once had an email address from there. Personally, I prefer to have a computer and the TV, because then I can watch ER while I websurf. (g) I'm afraid that I have thrown over Star Trek for ER. Terribly disloyal of me, I know, but I just can't feel too sorry. :) Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:31:42 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Janice St. Clair" Subject: Carmina Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I passed the potatoes potahtoes musical pun on to my composer husband, who responded: "Let's CARL the whole thing Orff " Pax. Janice ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:18:39 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: A new experience. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eliza wrote: >There will be photos available as soon as they are developed! > Oh, Yes, PHOTOS -- please? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:28:43 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just out of curiosity, I followed the Humanities-Literature-Genre-Science Fiction Etc. links on Yahoo, and did not find a single reference to anything Sime~Gen when I got to the end of it. What's there is a long, long mishmash of pro sf stories their authors are now giving away free and extremely amateur stuff. There is way too much of it--about six screens' worth--and much of it is bad and boring. It's probably a good thing we are _not_ on this list. So, don't count on this route from Yahoo to bring new people to our sites. Not only are we not there, but considering what _is_ there, we really don't want to be. I'm sure if some of the pro writers listed there have been back recently and looked at the other stuff they are mixed in with, they are probably sorry they went to the effort to get listed there. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:33:50 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Any interest in informing "fallen" readers via the Barnes & Noble Explorations? They say "Tell us about your conventions, conferences, reading groups or anything else that may prove interesting." I stumbled upon "us" by accident on the web...yet I always pick up a copy of Explorations to see what new books are coming out (can't afford Locus) ... and would have stumbled across the universe sooner if it had been in Explorations. Might be an ok idea. Wendy Fisher fishydu@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:02:11 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: pronounced Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-18 13:09:23 EDT, you write: << "Klid" really being "Clyde," >> Nooooooooooooo! "Zeor" was the only good rhyme for "Eeyore" in (approximately) English..... I'm heartbroken. I might gradually be retrained to seh LINE as I've (very organic chemistry mindedly) always said SAY - leen, like NaCL, also a conductive substance...... But he's "Klid" .... If I dring lager, I guess I'll get to nag-ger ... But he's "Klid" PMN : ) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 17:01:57 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-17 12:33:31 EDT, you write: << So they don't want the standard SF-look covers this time>> As a purchaser of both King's "Carrie" and the original Saberhagen paperback of "The Dracula Tape", I will purchase good content no matter how embarrassing the cover motif << material to the novels that would make it worth YOUR while >> --- "in between" stuff or restored drafts would be very attractive to me : Digen's channel-school days, more on Hayashi etc. --- technical stuff in an appendix all those syndromes, "how to measure a field gradient", changeover protocols, stuff beyond a mere glossary would fascinate me along with the maps and so forth <> In trade format between sections excellent. As part of a seperate Companion volume also excellent .... but I agree with folks that just stuck in a la juvenile books it's less appealing (this is not a knock at juvies ... I love the minimalist graphics in Zelazny's werewolf tale, "A Dark Traveling", and (cast your minds back, waaaaay back) Leonard Wibberly's "Encounter Near Venus", and Zilpha Keatly Snyders "Black and Blue Magic") <> as it's own appendix -fine, since people could skip it easily if not interested (same goes for appendix of selyn mechanics) <> Mine might be the only vote for archival paper and leather bindings ... just as with my Tolkien editions I'd go to $50-$100 for that! for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper $30 for such additional material? as with Longyear omnibus .. $20-25 an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? I'm in the camp of collectors who have re-reading copies and one for the shelf..... so whatever format's chosen for long-lasting copies I'd *still* buy the paperback also. Get those reprints out there soonest! then the new book .... and then, at the pace needed for "extras", the trades/hardbacks (unless the deal is tradebacks or nothing...) <> I will buy the book forms regardless ... like another listmember, I'd use a downloaded file version for searches and background research ... but not plain reading ... Overall I'm immensely happy at the thought of new printing!!!! Go JLs!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:23:27 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > collectors who have re-reading copies and one for the shelf..... so whatever > format's chosen for long-lasting copies I'd *still* buy the paperback also. > Get those reprints out there soonest! then the new book .... and then, at the > pace needed for "extras", the trades/hardbacks (unless the deal is tradebacks > or nothing...) Just how long do average paperbacks last? Some I have in my collection are a lot older than me, and I am 34. They are still in good condition. On the other hand, I've seen brand new books fall to pieces with very little handling at all. -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:19:32 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Margaret Carter Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << --- "in between" stuff or restored drafts would be very attractive to me : Digen's channel-school days, more on Hayashi etc. --- technical stuff in an appendix all those syndromes, "how to measure a field gradient", changeover protocols, stuff beyond a mere glossary would fascinate me along with the maps and so forth >> Yes, those are great ideas! As for interior art, I can take it or leave it. Like many, would be put off by much emphasis on Tarot. Price: I haven't said anything yet because most people have cited the prices I agree with -- 15 to 20 dollars for a trade paperback ( up to 25 at most if it had lots of new stuff -- I would not want the cost raised just to accommodate artwork, though). I would be VERY distressed if the reprints came out exclusively in expensive "limiteds" at collector prices. I'm not a collector in that sense -- I buy books for the text. (I guess a real collector would just call me an "accumulator" -- I love to buy books and never get rid of any, but I get them as inexpensively as possible.) "Collector" prices would put the books out of reach of most of us, and surely that is just the opposite of what the reprints are intended to do. (Collector editions in addition to the regular reprints are OK, since the rest of us could just ignore them.) LL&P, Margaret ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:34:25 -0400 Reply-To: nova@xxxxxx.net Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Nova Subject: Reading JL's Posts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whenever Jacqueline Lichtenberg Posts to the list, it seems my browser Netscape insists on making it scroll at least 1 page to the right. I then have to keep using the arrow keys to read it. Whenever someone quotes her, the script seems to then want to stay in the confines of 1 page. I don't get it. Anyone have any ideas on how to correct this? Nova (gen chauvinist and proud of it) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:08:52 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" How many reprints are you looking at err reprinting anyway? Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:25:50 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An excellent idea, Wendy. My feeling is that any time fans run across an opportunity like this, and feel that they would like to introduce other readers to one of their favorite fandoms, they should just go right ahead and do so. Jean At 02:33 PM 8/22/98 EDT, Wendy wrote: >Any interest in informing "fallen" readers via the Barnes & Noble >Explorations? They say "Tell us about your conventions, conferences, reading >groups or anything else that may prove interesting." I stumbled upon "us" by >accident on the web...yet I always pick up a copy of Explorations to see what >new books are coming out (can't afford Locus) ... and would have stumbled >across the universe sooner if it had been in Explorations. Might be an ok >idea. >Wendy Fisher >fishydu@xxxxxx.com > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:38:15 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:08 AM 8/23/98 +1000, you wrote: >How many reprints are you looking at err reprinting anyway? Eventually all eight books. Probably 500-1000 copies to begin with, but don't hold us (or the publisher) to that as plans may change as conditions do. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:35:13 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit How many reprints are you looking at err reprinting anyway? -- Eliza Eventually all eight books. Probably 500-1000 copies to begin with, but don't hold us (or the publisher) to that as plans may change as conditions do. Jean That seems like a very small amount, but I guess it is better than nothing. If you are trying to reach NEW people, it probably wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket. If a lot of us scoop up the reprints then there are even LESS for the newcomers. -- Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:39:18 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: pronounced MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PMN wailed: > >But he's "Klid" .... > Don't worry, he's long since learned to answer to a wide range of variants of his name, titles, and epithets. For those who are interested, there is a website with sound files of me pronouncing a lot of the Simelan words and phrases, including the only whole sentence of Simelan that I know. http://members.aol.com/zeor1/ Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:47:31 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean wrote in reply to Wendy's note that said: Any interest in informing "fallen" readers via the Barnes & Noble Explorations? They say "Tell us about your conventions, conferences, reading groups or anything else that may prove interesting." I stumbled upon "us" by accident on the web...yet I always pick up a copy of Explorations to see what new books are coming out (can't afford Locus) ... and would have stumbled across the universe sooner if it had been in Explorations. Might be an ok >An excellent idea, Wendy. My feeling is that any time fans run across an >opportunity like this, and feel that they would like to introduce other >readers to one of their favorite fandoms, they should just go right ahead >and do so. Jean > I agree -- at the beginning of this year I shifted (prematurely to be sure) into ADVERTISE THE WEBRING mode even though some of our more vital elements weren't working yet (like the Search Engine) -- but I haven't had any time to devote to advertising. So again, if you see some place where you think we should be mentioned -- mention us. We're not a secret, and we do have the fiction posted that totally new readers can start with and get "into" the universe. Now that simegen.com has an actual entry-page, you should just direct new folks to www.simegen.com and see what happens next. Right now most of my time is going into getting the 8 extant novels ready for posting on the web and for the reprint project. JL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:56:35 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:35 AM 8/23/98 EDT, Karen wrote: >How many reprints are you looking at err reprinting anyway? -- Eliza > > Eventually all eight books. Probably 500-1000 copies to begin with, but > don't hold us (or the publisher) to that as plans may change as conditions > do. Jean > >That seems like a very small amount, but I guess it is better than nothing. >If you are trying to reach NEW people, it probably wouldn't even be a drop in >the bucket. If a lot of us scoop up the reprints then there are even LESS for >the newcomers. -- Karen Litman As we expect many of these sales to be via the Internet, if sales warrant, the publisher _reprints_. There is very, very little difference in per-copy cost of printing 1000 and 2000 copies--but printing 2000 and selling 750 means a _big_ loss to a little company. Printing 1000 and selling 750 probably means breaking even--but don't quote me on those exact figures, PLEASE! I am not the publisher. It will be something LIKE those figures, adjusted by the time, the per-book cost, the pre-orders, etc. Let the experts do the figuring, okay? When the time comes, there will be preordering, so PLEASE SCOOP THEM UP! Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:46:32 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Any ideas on how they'll be marketed...bookstore or direct from publisher or should we sign up in advance. Happy to do it any way it takes. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:48:41 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Guess I'm selfish, Karen. As long as I get mine, etc. But seriously, there is a whole generation out there that would gobble these books up once they got a taste of them. Maybe reprints of reprints will be needed VBG fishydu@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:53:55 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Cross Universes. (or, Taking a Sime to a Medieval Tournament) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We had lovely English weather on the day of the tournaments dawning - it rained. However, in true medieval fashion we didn't let a few drops of rain stop us - the creek hadn't flooded yet, everything was fine. As my husband requirered the car for work we had to take the train to Caboolture then a bus to the Abbey, but that didn't stop us from wearing our costumes down rather then taking them to change into. When you are talking about medieval clothing, believe me it's easier to wear them then to carry them! My son Garth (the 11 year old S~G fan) was coming along, this year as a page to the Master of the Guild. Usually he begs - one year he made $21! But this year he decided not to. When we got to the station at Caboolture I realised that it would probily cost less to catch a taxi then the bus if we could find another person. There was a Swedish lass waiting for the bus also, so we "kidnapped" her. Turned out that she is in a medieval group in her home country. I decided not to let her get away either, so we took her to the Guild tent and lent her a costume for the day. The Knights Guild has a memeber in Germany - it might be that we will have one in Sweden too now :) Zoe looked magnificent in her outfit. Dash it all - we forgot to take film for the camera so we have no photos to show you of the day - sorry :( The rain kept the temperature cool, and it stopped raining before the start of the tourny anyway. I had thought of setting up a Tecton Tent, for those injured on the field, but somehow that just didn't seem right.... Not too many knights slipped in the wet anyway, although I hope they all dry their armour before they put it away or it will rust. The Guild accepted Zoe as a member of my Household (that is what we call visitors of members - actually, in S~G, I'm a memeber of her Householding!) We stashed our bags in "junior" the Guilds secondary little tent which I hadn't seen before, and went for a tour of the area. We bought a clip for my hair, a celtic knotwork pendent for Garth, two goblets, and some fudge. (I like fudge!) Then we returned for the "Grand Parade". Grand Parades might look good, but when you are in them they are sort of dull. The Parade ended with the firering of the Renaisounce (spelling!!!) canon. They must have done some work on it - it was WAY louder then last year! Then it was back to the Guild Tent for a drink and some music from our music group "Guardarobe" They are a recorder consort, and are very good, often paid to perform at weddings. Two of the members are studying Medieval Music at Uni. Garth wandered over to play with the "Lance" which is our fighting group and a really nice bunch of young men. He had fun with them and helped them later in the day when they organised kids in games such as tug of war and knur and spel. He dug his heels in so far in the tug of war that they pulled the heels right off his boots! Zoe and Linda and I went down to the Abbey to watch the play that my Lord Master Blair had writen in his guise of a member of the Richard III Society. It was long. Then we went and had a really quick look at the Museum (Zoe agrees, the mummys foot will fit in Queen Mary's shoe) before rushing back to the tourny field for the Grand Finally and Storming of the Castle. The sun was out by now and was flashing off the armour of the Teutonic (which I kept hearing as Tectonic) knights. Having seen all that sort of stuff many times before, I left my Channel gaping (and wanting to join in) and went to start clearing up the Guild Tent. Bringing down the tent is fun - well, sort of. In reward for staying and helping to decamp, Linda drove Zoe, Garth, Petrinella (our Swedish hostage) and I home. Petrinella is staying central Brisbane so it was nice and close to where Zoe lives. I have her email too - now to introduce her to Sime Gen. :) It was a fun day - and we were all exhausted by the end of it which must mean it was a success too. What do I have planned next for my Channel? Well, a weekend or two off to recover definately! In October it is preperation for Mental Health Week (Zoe works in the field) so I will probibly be going down there to help her stuff envelopes and whatever other menial jobs she gives me to do. She will be coming up for Garth's 12th birthday in two weeks at his request. (she will be past turnover then and will need me near anyway [nods seriously]) We might take her to the beach.... End of report :) Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Sectuib Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:14:18 -0500 Reply-To: drjanetd@xxxxxx.net Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Janet Dornhoff, DVM" Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline Lichtenberg wrote: > Do you want additional interior artwork? If so, by which artists? Ooh, ooh! Someone has *got* to find out whether Robin Wood has ever read this series! I don't know if she'd be too expensive for what you've got planned or not, but she did a *fantastic* job on The People of Pern, and her Tarot deck is my absolute favorite! If not her, then maybe Larry Elmore? But you'd have to get him to do actual *human* shapes for the female characters... ;) >Articles about the Tarot and Astrological background underlying > the novels? Um, only if they obviously figure into the particular novel the article appeared with. Maybe you could do a Piers Anthony-style extra-long Afterword/Author's Note at the end and discuss what you had in mind then? >Additional short stories set before or after the events in the novel -- or perhaps elsewhere during the novel's events? Might be cool, but don't force yourself to come up with something for every novel if there isn't anything that pops into your head on its own. I'd rather have you working on the *real* stories than worrying about filling a quota. > How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? Hmm...I usually prefer a normal-sized paperback, that can fit into a purse or back pocket. When I do buy them, I usually balk at anything over $12, and prefer $10. But, I will admit that if it were the only form the book were available in, for this series I'd be willing to go up to $15. If they were hardcover, I could see $25-$30 easy. >And how > much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? (give prices as a range) For the thinner novels, probably $3.99 to $5.99, and the thicker ones a buck or two more. I'm not real happy about paying $6.99 unless the novel is an inch or more thick. Again, for this series I'd probably go over my usual limits. However, if you're also counting on drawing in *new* readers to the series with this reprint, you might want to keep the costs down to the low end of the ranges I've given. I have occasionally looked at a new book in a series, looked at the number of old novels and the prices on their spines, done the math, and decided it's not worth it. I might go check out the old books at the library, but buying the whole series is a pretty big investment. > And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, how long are you willing to wait for minor additions? We could > have reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, we're talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint > program. I personally already own the series in the original versions, so I'm not so desperate for the reprints to arrive. I'd be willing to wait for the new material. However, you might want to work on getting at least some of the reprints out to coincide with Farris Channel or perhaps predate it a little. Again, we can draw in new readers if there's something there for them to read. > Additionally, there are negotiations in progress that will result in all these novels being made available on the web for FREE > READING. No telling how LONG they would continue to be posted to the Web, but they'd be there for free. They'd be hard to download > and print, but not impossible. Given that the material would be there for free, would you STILL buy the book? Definitely. The net is wonderful for spreading fanfic, but there's nothing like holding an actual *book* in your hands. Also, my desktop PC doesn't fit into my purse or jeans pocket. ;-) -Janet "If you've never barked your shins on a fire hydrant or said "Excuse me!" to a lamppost, you've obviously been wasting far too much valuable reading time." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:52:58 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jenn Subject: Re: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980822012843.006e9e9c@xxxxxx.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at Aug 21, 98 08:28:43 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Just out of curiosity, I followed the Humanities-Literature-Genre-Science > Fiction Etc. links on Yahoo, and did not find a single reference to anything > Sime~Gen when I got to the end of it. What's there is a long, long mishmash I spent a couple of months submitting us to Yahoo every second week, and NEVER got a SINGLE response. Then I gave up in disgust - I had much much MUCH more work to do, and we're accessible on most of the OTHER major search engines. Anyone who wishes to take on the task of getting us on Yahoo, please feel free. But from my experience, don't expect it to be a case of submitting it once and it's done. :( Jenn V. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:30:54 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jenn Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion In-Reply-To: <199808180442.XAA04001@xxxxxx.net> from "Ronnie Bob Whitaker" at Aug 17, 98 11:42:46 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > JL Writes: > >Personally, I lean toward a simple, straight reprint, perhaps with some > >interior art as the budget might allow, but get the books > >out there as quickly and cheaply as possible. But I don't have the final > say >on this -- so let's hear your opinions. > > RBW Comments: > Since you asked, I answered. If you are only going to have simple, straight > reprints, then mass paperback would be much better. People expect MORE from > trade paper backs than straight reprints. (At least if the mass book has > already been published, this isn't true in the cycle when the Hardcover > comes out first, followed by the Trade and then the mass market, they can > all be the same because they are getting the different people for the > different style of book, in those cases, I ALWAYS wait for the mass > paperback, since I can buy more of them and the Trade and hardcover are more > difficult for me to handle.) My suggestion: Simple, ungarnished paperbacks out first - Jean says they're likely to be medium-small print runs ANYWAY. If/when things go well, perhaps a second print run can be a 'collectors' print run - trade paperback or hardback books with additional garnishing - short stories, maps, timelines, notes, all sorts of etceteras. If things go well enough to support the second print run, there will have been time for those things to be developed ANYWAY.. Jenn V. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:15:01 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I did a search for sime~gen through Yahoo and got 59 pages in reply. What's the problem? Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:40:49 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:19 PM 8/22/98 EDT, Margaret wrote: >I would be VERY distressed if the reprints came out exclusively in expensive >"limiteds" at collector prices. I'm not a collector in that sense -- I buy >books for the text. (I guess a real collector would just call me an >"accumulator" -- I love to buy books and never get rid of any, but I get them >as inexpensively as possible.) "Collector" prices would put the books out of >reach of most of us, and surely that is just the opposite of what the reprints >are intended to do. (Collector editions in addition to the regular reprints >are OK, since the rest of us could just ignore them.) I have seen a number of people express similar opinions, and of course we have many people pledging to buy a possible paperback version of _The Farris Channel_ who can't afford the hardcover. PM Newcomb writes, ><> Mine might be the only vote for archival paper and leather bindings >... just as with my Tolkien editions I'd go to $50-$100 for that! > for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper $30 > for such additional material? as with Longyear omnibus .. $20-25 > an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? I'm in the camp of >collectors who have re-reading copies and one for the shelf..... so whatever >format's chosen for long-lasting copies I'd *still* buy the paperback also. >Get those reprints out there soonest! then the new book .... and then, at the >pace needed for "extras", the trades/hardbacks (unless the deal is tradebacks >or nothing...) Ah, if only _all_ the responses were like this one! We'd be off and running! But unfortunately most of the responses are like Margaret's. These are painful truths, but we _need_ the truth! It would be terrible if you all said you would happily pay $30 for a reprint, our publisher made decisions based on that information, and then it turned out that you had said it to encourage the publisher and actually no one bought a copy! But then Ronnie Bob writes, > Since you asked, I answered. If you are only going to have simple, straight > reprints, then mass paperback would be much better. And Jenn responds, >Simple, ungarnished paperbacks out first - Jean says they're likely to be >medium-small print runs ANYWAY. > >If/when things go well, perhaps a second print run can be a 'collectors' >print run - trade paperback or hardback books with additional garnishing >- short stories, maps, timelines, notes, all sorts of etceteras. *Sigh* We have a serious problem. It's the fans' problem only in that your honest responses to our survey could mean that there won't be reprints after all, for our only chance at reprints is through a small press. We are NOT going to be able to get a trade publisher--the people who print the mass paperbacks you buy at Wal-Mart--to do these reprints. Only small presses are willing to risk reprinting midlist books like ours, and we are _very fortunate_ to have one considering republishing our work. Let me attempt again to explain the economic realities. There is simply no way (and never has been) for a small press to print 500-1000 or even 5000 (and we have no hopes of selling 5000) copies of a trade (mass) paperback style book to sell at the same price as identical-appearing books from trade publishers. When you print less than 10% as many as the "big guys" do in a print run, the price per copy skyrockets to three or four times what the "big guys" pay. Small presses can recoup some of the loss by having fewer "middle men" taking a cut of the profit, but remember, that means they also have fewer distribution channels and therefore fewer chances to sell the books. Can you see where this is going? Readers flat out won't pay two to three times the price they are accustomed to paying for what looks like and will deteriorate like an ordinary everyday paperback book. Now, unless the movie happens, an event we all devoutly wish for but have the sense not to pin our hopes on, there will not be such a gigantic demand that a 25,000 trade paperback print run (of one book--no, it cannot be divided up among eight) would be called for. Again, devoutly to be wished, but highly unlikely. So, what you are telling us when you say you won't buy the limited editions, even with value-added material, is that if you are representative of potential readers at large, there is no market for the only kinds of editions possible. Cheap editions are _not going to happen_ at these numbers. That is a fact we cannot change. Your help in choosing what to put _in_ these volumes is invaluable. The majority of you say interior art is not worth the cost--okay, that's a saving we can agree to. You say almost overwhelmingly you don't want esoteric background. We will report that to the publisher, as well. You say you want maps. You're right, but I'm cringing inside because I know how we have gone round and round on this in the past--and the rare times we _have_ printed maps, after the fact geologists and geographers have told us they're wrong, while we ourselves have later decided we want to to change the geography for story purposes. But I think we can overcome that one with the assumption that the maps are the best available at the time of each book, which means that except for local terrain they are about as accurate as the good old "Here there be dragons" medieval maps. You say you want value added text, background, extra stories, etc. Great! That we can do, and have fun doing it, and it will add value for readers without a great addition in printing costs (just a few more pages, not illos or special production costs). But then many of you say that after we do all that, you won't--or can't--pay for it. That is also invaluable information--I am _not_ criticizing you for telling us this painful truth! Unfortunately, since _any_ small press, not just the only one interested in reprinting the S~G novels, can _only_ afford limited editions with value added to make them worth the price, that is the only kind of edition there is going to be unless there is some sudden, completely unexpected demand for tens of thousands of copies. And now I have probably only confused matters even more by trying to explain further. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:47:30 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eliza wrote, >I did a search for sime~gen through Yahoo and got 59 pages in reply. >What's the problem? There's supposed to be a Sime~Gen category somewhere under Arts, Literature, SF, etc. But there isn't. You see, if potential viewers have never heard of sime~gen, they will never type "sime~gen" into any search engine. Thus they will never find us. But if they are sf fen, and they go browsing through Yahoo's category layers, get down to sf, and find this funny-sounding category with the squiggle in the middle, they just _might_ click on it and discover us. But they will never type it in by accident. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:52:04 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Whatever is decided hopefully a good quality, acid free paper will be used so that the books last longer. My originals are all yellowed -- though in excellent condition. I have a hardback book from 1945 which is yellowed --- but a vastly older book that the 1977 era of Sime~Gen. Just my two cents ---- Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:22:03 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sylvia Engdahl Subject: Re: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980824024730.0070350c@xxxxxx.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Jean Lorrah wrote: > There's supposed to be a Sime~Gen category somewhere under Arts, Literature, > SF, etc. But there isn't. > > You see, if potential viewers have never heard of sime~gen, they will never > type "sime~gen" into any search engine. Thus they will never find us. > > But if they are sf fen, and they go browsing through Yahoo's category > layers, get down to sf, and find this funny-sounding category with the > squiggle in the middle, they just _might_ click on it and discover us. But > they will never type it in by accident. Jean It is very hard to get listed by Yahoo (and also to get UNlisted; I had a site to advertise a friend's house and deleted it after she sold it, but I still get many hits on it despite having told Yahoo several times that it's gone.) I haven't been able to get her listed under Mystery Writers although she has three mysteries, and many other books, in print -- and I have tried repeatedly since last November. Unlike automated search engines, Yahoo is a selective list, and their employees apparently have to look at sites before they're included. However, have you tried with the url of simegen.com? I have heard that they give preference to sites with unique domain names, rather than provider domain names. Sylvia ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ** New edition of my Star Trilogy coming in 2000 from Meisha Merlin! ** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Sylvia Engdahl - Eugene, Oregon Visit my Website! sengdahl@xxxxxx.com http://www.teleport.com/~sengdahl/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 01:31:35 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have just relisted us with Yahoo under the Literary listing. Lets see if they like it any better this time. I'm also looking at other areas of marketing the site. Eliza At 20:22 23/08/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Jean Lorrah wrote: > >> There's supposed to be a Sime~Gen category somewhere under Arts, Literature, >> SF, etc. But there isn't. >> >> You see, if potential viewers have never heard of sime~gen, they will never >> type "sime~gen" into any search engine. Thus they will never find us. >> >> But if they are sf fen, and they go browsing through Yahoo's category >> layers, get down to sf, and find this funny-sounding category with the >> squiggle in the middle, they just _might_ click on it and discover us. But >> they will never type it in by accident. Jean > >It is very hard to get listed by Yahoo (and also to get UNlisted; I >had a site to advertise a friend's house and deleted it after she sold >it, but I still get many hits on it despite having told Yahoo several >times that it's gone.) I haven't been able to get her listed under >Mystery Writers although she has three mysteries, and many other >books, in print -- and I have tried repeatedly since last November. >Unlike automated search engines, Yahoo is a selective list, and their >employees apparently have to look at sites before they're included. > >However, have you tried with the url of simegen.com? I have heard >that they give preference to sites with unique domain names, rather >than provider domain names. > >Sylvia > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >** New edition of my Star Trilogy coming in 2000 from Meisha Merlin! ** >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Sylvia Engdahl - Eugene, Oregon Visit my Website! >sengdahl@xxxxxx.com http://www.teleport.com/~sengdahl/ > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:40:22 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Ronnie Bob Whitaker Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sunday, 23 August 1998, Dear Jean, Just to set the record straight, Jean Quotes me as saying: >But then Ronnie Bob writes, > Since you asked, I answered. If you are only going to have simple, straight > reprints, then mass paperback would be much better. which was a quote from Jenn's message in which she said: >And Jenn responds, >>Simple, ungarnished paperbacks out first - Jean says they're likely to be >>medium-small print runs ANYWAY. RBW Current Comments: Jean then goes on to explain the economics of how small trade presses operate, which is very interesting. However, I feel that Jean and Jenn both missed my point and it may "appear" as if I would be unwilling to purchase a trade or even a "collector's edition" when in fact my message said in another part: >>JL Asks: >>How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, >>long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how >>much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular >>paperback? (give prices as a range) > >RBW Comments: >In current day dollars and compared to current day prices: >$15 - 20 for single novel trade, up to $30 for multi novel omnibus trade. >(Suggestions, First Channel/Channel's Destiny, Ambrov Keon/Zelerod's Doom, Unto >Zeor, Forever/Mahogany Trinrose, RenSime/Channel's Exemption/Hop Skip & Jump, >House of Zeor/+ future outline of Klyd and Hugh or add in with AK/ZD) RBW Current Comments: Based on my current knowledge of trade prices, I was quoting up to $5 additional for a straight trade novel and almost double for additional material or omnibus trade edition. I also highly suspected that the mass market size would be priced outside the range of the normal mass market buyer, so I was trying to indicate that (in my opinion) for a Trade size to succeed, then it would need something "extra" to draw people in to buy that size, and that I was willing to pay to do so, as are many of the responses, though many were geared to the mass market style distribution mentality that current midlist writers can't crack. (I also indicated that I was probably one of the few who would pay for the trade size even without additions because I'm interested in this universe and want it to be a successful venture.) I don't take offense at the way the quote was used, since it was obviously taken from Jenn's message and given from that context only. But I would prefer when you start counting on serious numbers who are willing to pay a bit more than normal trade prices up to a LOT more than normal trade prices, you will cast my vote with Margaret's and not just put it with the mass-market, mass-price column. Given your explanation of the small trade press situation, I still feel that if you use my original message, you will find that I will be supporting the efforts in any way that I can, including the purchase of the reprinted books even if the same material is offered for Free on the Internet. Thanks all, Having Fun in the Sime~Gen Universe, Ronnie Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:28:34 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Ronnie Bob Whitaker Subject: Trade Paper & Enemy Papers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sunday, 23 August 1998, Dear Gang, I just picked up from Barnes and Nobles, in TRADE paper, The Enemy Papers by Barry B. Longyear, another of the authors which I follow. I looked at it and studied about it and put it back one, but the decided that I just couldn't live without it, mainly because I seriously doubt that it will ever be published as mass market, and if it were to be, I just couldn't wait for it anyway. (I sometimes have that happen with TRADE paperbacks, but seldom with Hardcovers unless they are severely discounted or I REALLY, REALLY want it in Hard cover. (JL's Vampire books which never made it to Trade even.)) I thought that an indication of what this TRADE consisted of would help in our discussion of S~G reprints. The Enemy Papers consists of 1) Enemy Mine (the author's cut of an expanded version of the short story which won the author three prestigious awards in one year and I thought the movie was great, though the table of contents says "When told 'I really loved the movie Enemy Mine,' this is the version the author will force you to read on the spot, most likely at gunpoint." 2) The Tomorrow Testament, just a reprint, 3) The Last Enemy, a totally new book in the universe, never published before, 4) the Talman, portions of the alien Drac Bible, with indications that you read it first if you want to get the alien point of view of Enemy Mine, or afterward if you want to experience the human pov in Enemy Mine, 5) A study on alien languages and what some of the pitfalls are, especially if you start too soon and don't have a very good memory, 6) Run Drac Run, the full, uncut, never-before told tale of the writings of "Enemy Mine," The Tomorrow Testament, and The Last Enemy, including the making of the motion picture Enemy Mine, and how the author recovered from it all by smacking his head repeatedly on his Wang, 7) Drac English dictionary for travelers and 8) an index to the book. All in 656 pages for $14.99 US. Don't tell the publisher, but I probably would have paid up to $5 more for the book and still bought it on the spot. (In fact when I saw the size, I was afraid to look at the price, because I feared it might be $30 and I would have to seriously consider whether to buy it or not.) This was Borealis, an imprint of White Wolf Publishing. However, this does illustrate the point that I would like to make that when the original stories have been published, the buyers "expect" more from the Trade edition, but are willing to "pay more" for the extras. I have Enemy Mine in short story form, in Tor Double form and in the movie book form, but the enticement that this was the "author's cut" was too hard to resist. I have Tomorrow Testament and it is just a reprint. Nobody has the unpublished novel that is included and I'm looking forward to reading it when I get a Round Tuit. The essays and the dictionary and the index are all extras which add 50 pages and the Talmon added 100 pages. Naturally, I don't expect a small Trade press to be able to match the prices or size or distribution of something like The Enemy Papers. But studying it leads you to understand some things that might help the S~G reprint effort. If all that is available is a strict reprint of a single book, then the price really needs to stay right in the $15-$20 range (I'm talking about current day dollars, not the range when it might actually be published, considering what the trades will cost then.) For "extras" that add 20 to 30 pages in single novels, then I would say that $20-$25 is a good range. For omnibus editions of reprints only, then $20-$30 depending on the number of books included. For omnibus editions with "extras" (I've already given examples of my desired extras as have many others on the list) I would consider $25-$35 a good price. Fortunately, many of the S~G books are ideal in omnibus editions: FC/CD go well together; HoZ, AK, ZD go well together; and UZF, MT, RS have enough in common to share. There are also many articles already published in the fanzines by the authors which would add to these, such as the starred-cross, making and changing of RenSime from the original Sime from Gen Divided, etc. JL's first tarot book of unpublished material was 184 pages at $15, and I assumed this would make 400 pages (should be doable with most of the omnibus) easily come in the $25-$30 range even for small trade press, though they are the experts on that and I'm just having to guess based on the current results I have seen. More food for thought on the original subject, but no matter the outcome, and disregarding financial disasters, I plan to support (BUY!) whatever tactic the reprints are issued in to the best of my ability. Having Fun in the Sime~Gen Universe, Ronnie Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 06:39:56 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 21-AUG-1998 21:30:04.1 SIMEGEN-L said to AERDEN SI>Just out of curiosity, I followed the SI>Humanities-Literature-Genre-Science Fiction Etc. links on Yahoo, and SI>did not find a single reference to anything Sime~Gen when I got to the SI>end of it. What's there is a long, long mishmash of pro sf stories SI>their authors are now giving away free and extremely amateur stuff. SI>There is way too much of it--about six screens' worth--and much of it SI>is bad and boring. It's probably a good thing we are _not_ on this SI>list. SI>So, don't count on this route from Yahoo to bring new people to our SI>sites. Not only are we not there, but considering what _is_ there, we SI>really don't want to be. I'm sure if some of the pro writers listed SI>there have been back recently and looked at the other stuff they are SI>mixed in with, they are probably sorry they went to the effort to get SI>listed there. Jean Jean--My friend Randall told me that Yahoo has stopped listing websites which aren't hosted by their own domain name because they've been having too many 'broken addresses.' His 'Links of Interest to SF Fandom' site is no longer listed, and he asked Yahoo why, which is how he found out. I've noticed that my Falkenstone Hold site is no longer listed, even though I submitted the URL last December. You could probably get Sime/Gen stuff back up there, since you have your own domain name now, but it doesn't sound to me like the prospect is too appealing at the moment. Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:15:58 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: TECH: Are we on Yahoo? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have re listed us with Yahoo's literary link. With luck they will like it better this time around. I also have a list of 50 + other sites to list it with (no, this isn't to submit it to search engines, but to lists of science fiction links). If anyone is interested in helping in this, email me and I'll send you a section of the urls to contact. Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:01:54 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All the posts concerning what fans want and don't want, will and will not (cannot) pay for, are being collected to be given to the publisher, along with a summary of the results. What I saw happening yesterday was a thread beginning, "Let's save money and sell more books by printing a plain vanilla paperback first instead of a trade edition." I tried to explain why there is no monetary savings in such an edition, before you all got your hopes up that you had solved the problem. As I feared, it simply confused the issue more. Sorry. Jean At 10:40 PM 8/23/98 -0500, Ronnie Bob wrote: >Sunday, 23 August 1998, >Dear Jean, > >Just to set the record straight, > >Jean Quotes me as saying: >>But then Ronnie Bob writes, >> Since you asked, I answered. If you are only going to have simple, straight >> reprints, then mass paperback would be much better. > >which was a quote from Jenn's message in which she said: >>And Jenn responds, >>>Simple, ungarnished paperbacks out first - Jean says they're likely to be >>>medium-small print runs ANYWAY. > >RBW Current Comments: >Jean then goes on to explain the economics of how small trade presses >operate, which is very interesting. > >However, I feel that Jean and Jenn both missed my point and it may "appear" >as if I would be unwilling to purchase a trade or even a "collector's >edition" when in fact my message said in another part: > >>>JL Asks: >>>How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, >>>long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how >>>much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating >regular >>paperback? (give prices as a range) >> >>RBW Comments: >>In current day dollars and compared to current day prices: >>$15 - 20 for single novel trade, up to $30 for multi novel omnibus trade. >>(Suggestions, First Channel/Channel's Destiny, Ambrov Keon/Zelerod's Doom, >Unto >Zeor, Forever/Mahogany Trinrose, RenSime/Channel's Exemption/Hop Skip >& Jump, >House of Zeor/+ future outline of Klyd and Hugh or add in with AK/ZD) > >RBW Current Comments: > Based on my current knowledge of trade prices, I was quoting up to $5 >additional for a straight trade novel and almost double for additional >material or omnibus trade edition. > I also highly suspected that the mass market size would be priced >outside the range of the normal mass market buyer, so I was trying to >indicate that (in my opinion) for a Trade size to succeed, then it would >need something "extra" to draw people in to buy that size, and that I was >willing to pay to do so, as are many of the responses, though many were >geared to the mass market style distribution mentality that current midlist >writers can't crack. (I also indicated that I was probably one of the few >who would pay for the trade size even without additions because I'm >interested in this universe and want it to be a successful venture.) > >I don't take offense at the way the quote was used, since it was obviously >taken from Jenn's message and given from that context only. But I would >prefer when you start counting on serious numbers who are willing to pay a >bit more than normal trade prices up to a LOT more than normal trade prices, >you will cast my vote with Margaret's and not just put it with the >mass-market, mass-price column. > >Given your explanation of the small trade press situation, I still feel that >if you use my original message, you will find that I will be supporting the >efforts in any way that I can, including the purchase of the reprinted books >even if the same material is offered for Free on the Internet. > >Thanks all, > >Having Fun in the Sime~Gen Universe, >Ronnie Bob > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:01:57 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Trade Paper & Enemy Papers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you, Ronnie Bob. The Enemy Papers is an excellent example of the way I personally would like to see the S~G books reprinted. However--does someone know the whole story of this book? I _heard_ at WorldCon, and do not know how accurate the story is, that publishing this book bankrupted White Wolf Publishing, which has now gone out of business. Does anyone know if this story is true? When I got home, I looked at the price on my edition and thought along with Ronnie Bob, "Why didn't they charge another five bucks?!" IFF the story is true, it might have kept the publisher solvent. Jean At 11:28 PM 8/23/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sunday, 23 August 1998, >Dear Gang, > I just picked up from Barnes and Nobles, in TRADE paper, The Enemy >Papers by Barry B. Longyear, another of the authors which I follow. > I looked at it and studied about it and put it back one, but the >decided that I just couldn't live without it, mainly because I seriously >doubt that it will ever be published as mass market, and if it were to be, I >just couldn't wait for it anyway. (I sometimes have that happen with TRADE >paperbacks, but seldom with Hardcovers unless they are severely discounted >or I REALLY, REALLY want it in Hard cover. (JL's Vampire books which never >made it to Trade even.)) > I thought that an indication of what this TRADE consisted of would help >in our discussion of S~G reprints. > The Enemy Papers consists of 1) Enemy Mine (the author's cut of an >expanded version of the short story which won the author three prestigious >awards in one year and I thought the movie was great, though the table of >contents says "When told 'I really loved the movie Enemy Mine,' this is the >version the author will force you to read on the spot, most likely at >gunpoint." 2) The Tomorrow Testament, just a reprint, 3) The Last Enemy, a >totally new book in the universe, never published before, 4) the Talman, >portions of the alien Drac Bible, with indications that you read it first if >you want to get the alien point of view of Enemy Mine, or afterward if you >want to experience the human pov in Enemy Mine, 5) A study on alien >languages and what some of the pitfalls are, especially if you start too >soon and don't have a very good memory, 6) Run Drac Run, the full, uncut, >never-before told tale of the writings of "Enemy Mine," The Tomorrow >Testament, and The Last Enemy, including the making of the motion picture >Enemy Mine, and how the author recovered from it all by smacking his head >repeatedly on his Wang, 7) Drac English dictionary for travelers and 8) an >index to the book. All in 656 pages for $14.99 US. > > Don't tell the publisher, but I probably would have paid up to $5 more >for the book and still bought it on the spot. (In fact when I saw the size, >I was afraid to look at the price, because I feared it might be $30 and I >would have to seriously consider whether to buy it or not.) > > This was Borealis, an imprint of White Wolf Publishing. > > However, this does illustrate the point that I would like to make that >when the original stories have been published, the buyers "expect" more from >the Trade edition, but are willing to "pay more" for the extras. I have >Enemy Mine in short story form, in Tor Double form and in the movie book >form, but the enticement that this was the "author's cut" was too hard to >resist. I have Tomorrow Testament and it is just a reprint. Nobody has the >unpublished novel that is included and I'm looking forward to reading it >when I get a Round Tuit. >The essays and the dictionary and the index are all extras which add 50 >pages and the Talmon added 100 pages. > > Naturally, I don't expect a small Trade press to be able to match the >prices or size or distribution of something like The Enemy Papers. But >studying it leads you to understand some things that might help the S~G >reprint effort. If all that is available is a strict reprint of a single >book, then the price really needs to stay right in the $15-$20 range (I'm >talking about current day dollars, not the range when it might actually be >published, considering what the trades will cost then.) For "extras" that >add 20 to 30 pages in single novels, then I would say that $20-$25 is a good >range. For omnibus editions of reprints only, then $20-$30 depending on the >number of books included. For omnibus editions with "extras" (I've already >given examples of my desired extras as have many others on the list) I would >consider $25-$35 a good price. > > Fortunately, many of the S~G books are ideal in omnibus editions: >FC/CD go well together; HoZ, AK, ZD go well together; and UZF, MT, RS have >enough in common to share. There are also many articles already published >in the fanzines by the authors which would add to these, such as the >starred-cross, making and changing of RenSime from the original Sime from >Gen Divided, etc. > > JL's first tarot book of unpublished material was 184 pages at $15, and >I assumed this would make 400 pages (should be doable with most of the >omnibus) easily come in the $25-$30 range even for small trade press, though >they are the experts on that and I'm just having to guess based on the >current results I have seen. > > More food for thought on the original subject, but no matter the >outcome, and disregarding financial disasters, I plan to support (BUY!) >whatever tactic the reprints are issued in to the best of my ability. > >Having Fun in the Sime~Gen Universe, >Ronnie Bob > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:51:24 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Gwynhwyfar Moonfire Subject: White Wolf Publishing (Was Re: Trade Paper & Enemy Papers) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980824120157.006ee814@xxxxxx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:01 AM 8/24/98 -0500, Jean Lorrah wrote: >However--does someone know the whole story of this book? I _heard_ at >WorldCon, and do not know how accurate the story is, that publishing this >book bankrupted White Wolf Publishing, which has now gone out of business. >Does anyone know if this story is true? I don't know anything about the book, but I do know that judging from the schedule of gaming books to be released between now and December, White Wolf is very much in business. (Twenty-nine items among the various systems between August and December.) They have lists of items to be released and such on their website. www.white-wolf.com, for those interested or simply bored. -Gwyn (who really needs more cold medication. Or new lungs.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 06:58:08 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cindy Leonard-Krinsky Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Jean Lorrah wrote: > > But then many of you say that after we do all that, you won't--or can't--pay > for it. That is also invaluable information--I am _not_ criticizing you for > telling us this painful truth! Unfortunately, since _any_ small press, not > just the only one interested in reprinting the S~G novels, can _only_ afford > limited editions with value added to make them worth the price, that is the > only kind of edition there is going to be unless there is some sudden, > completely unexpected demand for tens of thousands of copies. > > And now I have probably only confused matters even more by trying to explain > further. Jean > Just to add my comments: It is important to know the truth, and it is obvious that some may not be able to support more expensive versions of the books. I know this is just a fact of life, and those people who cannot afford the books are not to be blamed. I will definitely be willing to pay from $10 to $15 for a trade paperback; I am hoping that price is not too low. I don't usually buy these because of the price and the size, however for this series I would, even though I already have the complete set. I am especially interested, of course, in the maps, background material, author's notes, and/or short stories set around the same time. The only problem I see is that this kind of book may not be attractive to someone who is new to the series. So, that looks like the major dilemma to me: a book that will attract new fans may not necessarily be of value to established fans who already worked hard to find and purchase old publications of the series. It may be necessary for those of us established fans, who can afford it, to just support the reprint project no matter what the decision as to the type of book. If it is possible to print a relatively inexpensive version, designed to be attractive to new people, I will definitely support them by purchasing them, even though I already have the old books. I really want this series to be available to new people. There are important truths to be learned from these stories, as well as being just great stories to be enjoyed. One thing I find fun, is to expose others to a series that I have relished. Without books they can purchase, it is pretty difficult. I have already lent out my books many times, lost some in the process, and had to search for them again. Anyway, I am behind this project, whatever it takes. Cindy _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxxxxx.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:22:38 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: TEST POST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This post is just to test the way I have this emailer set so that my posts don't come out all wrong for some emailer displays. JL Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 10:32:27 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cindy wrote: >The only problem I see is that this kind of book may not be attractive >to someone who is new to the series. So, that looks like the major >dilemma to me: a book that will attract new fans may not necessarily >be of value to established fans who already worked hard to find and >purchase old publications of the series. JL here: that's why it was so important to Jean and me to find this way to publish the books online so you can try them out for FREE and then decide if you can afford to buy copies. Also, with them posted online for free, you folks who like this stuff can use those free copies to spread the word about what you like. The KEY though was convincing the publisher that the free-online availability would not undercut the market for the books themselves. These are two different markets. JL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:04:54 -0400 Reply-To: slaterb@xxxxxx.edu Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Barbara Slater Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My .02 on this: What about publishing on CD-ROMs? Admittedly, I don't know much about the possible pitfalls, but as a bookaholic who's running out of space, I think it'd be *great* to be able to condense my 8 walls of books and magazines to something I could pack into the back seat if I had to bug out because of Bonnie, or fire or flood... Barbara Slater Jenn wrote: > > JL Writes: > > >Personally, I lean toward a simple, straight reprint, perhaps with some > > >interior art as the budget might allow, but get the books > > >out there as quickly and cheaply as possible. But I don't have the final > > say >on this -- so let's hear your opinions. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:27:16 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Subject: Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would be willing to buy two, manybe three copies of all 8 novels at up to $20 each, particularly if more fiction was included. -- John Cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:30:10 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Margaret Carter Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion, "limited" editions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Oh! I hope I didn't muddy the waters with an unclear statement. I understood all along that the reprints would be "limited" in the sense of a small print run. And I DO want to see a trade paperback with additional material (universe background, maps, glossary, short stories to fill "gaps," authors' essays on how the story was created, etc.), for which I would be happy to pay a little more than regular trade paperback prices. (As already mentioned, I almost certainly wouldn't buy a straight reprint with no added material.) The "limited" editions at "collector" prices that I don't want to see (unless it's a small print run in ADDITION to the "real" one, for the benefit of collectors) are books constructed with expensive paper, illustrations, and bindings specifically for the collector market, priced at the $60-$100 range mentioned -- not only out of the range of most readers, but of little interest to most (if I'm typical). Books that are DESIGNED to be hard to afford and to go out of print immediately upon publication. Similar to those published by Transylvania Press (they do stay in print, but they are too expensive for the average vampire fan) or the "limiteds" of Stephen King's novels that usually come out a few months to a year before the ones actually intended to be bought and read by "the masses." I have always felt, as a reader, that publishing an otherwise unavailable book SOLELY in a luxuriously expensive (deliberately DESIGNED to be more expensive than the exigencies of small press publishing make unavoidable) "collector's" edition is a slap in the face to the general reader. True, authors have no legal or moral "obligation" to make everything they write generally available. But if one isn't interested in being widely read, why publish at all (unless it's on a very specialized subject with such a narrow readership that "expensive" is the only feasible way to publish)? My old mentor of many years ago, Gothic scholar D. P. Varma, once said that a rare book, if exhumed and republished, should be almost as rare after reprinting as it was to begin with. That struck me as one of the daftest (and most insultingly elitist) remarks I'd ever heard. He was one of the most distinguished authorities in the field, to be sure, but definitely peculiar in some respects! LL&P, Margaret ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:20:46 -1000 Reply-To: Torun@xxxxxx.net Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: David and/or Torun Almer Organization: Starfire Retreat Bed and Breakfast, Kailua-Kona, HI Subject: y2K test - it's free MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those who might be interested, there's a free y2K test you can apply to your PC. Read the info on the page, though, to decide if you want to use it. http://www.suttondesigns.com/NetsaversCenter/Y2K/y2k-software.html I've downloaded it but haven't had time to do the test; will probably get to it in the next day or so. Torun -- http://home1.gte.net/torun/ Starfire Retreat Bed and Breakfast Kailua-Kona, HI ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:19:51 -0700 Reply-To: Donald Jaramillo Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Donald Jaramillo Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Karen Litman To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 8:45 AM Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion >How many reprints are you looking at err reprinting anyway? -- Eliza > > Eventually all eight books. Probably 500-1000 copies to begin with, but > don't hold us (or the publisher) to that as plans may change as conditions > do. Jean > >That seems like a very small amount, but I guess it is better than nothing. >If you are trying to reach NEW people, it probably wouldn't even be a drop in >the bucket. If a lot of us scoop up the reprints then there are even LESS for >the newcomers. -- Karen Litman > I was thinking the very same thing. With a number of us buying multiple copies, we'd eat up a significant portion fo the 500 real quick! :-) Follow Your Bliss!! Don ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org djaramillo@xxxxxx.com roburddraig@xxxxxx.com ICQ: 10762090 (Work) ICQ: 2869199 (Home) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:03:57 -0700 Reply-To: Donald Jaramillo Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Donald Jaramillo Subject: Re: NEWS: Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Chantal Whittington To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 4:55 PM Subject: NEWS: Reprint Discussion >>Re Tarot and astrological information--I'm totally uninterested in that >stuff. If it were all you added, I'd pass on the reprints unless the cover >artwork was especially interesting and well done. Reincarnation in the >Sime-Gen universe, I can deal with, but adding Tarot and astrological stuff >is too far out, in my opinion. Somehow, it just doesn't fit with the feel >of the books, except for _Mahogany Trinrose_. I would include Tarot, etc. >only if you are specifically trying to sell to a New-Age or Pagan >audience, and not to the mainstream. I'm not sure that the mainstream >readers would go for it. If you had given the series a Tarot-ish slant from >the beginning, that would be one thing. But I've been able to read, >understand, and enjoy the books while having no knowledge of Tarot or >astrology at all, so I can't see much of a reason for adding it. Actually, all indicators are that Astrologogical if not Tarotic principles were part of the background for a VERY long time. I would direct one to Jacqueline's article, The Starred-Cross as a Symbol of the Age of Capricorn ( http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/5683/GeoSTARREDC.html ) which was what in AZ #6? In it, Jacqueline talks about appling the principles of the Astrological Ages (Christianity and related thought being a part of the Picean Age, we're now moving into the Aquarian Age), and how socieital trends are thought to be shaped in each period. Jacqueline has stated that quite a bit of how socieity and religion manifests in S~G is based upon Capricornian traits. I feel that we often tend to model CotP after own own 20th century examples of religious and philosophical conservativism taken to the extreme. Based upon Jacqueline's writings, the way it manifests is subtly different than what we are traditionally used to. One way that I see the underlying astrological and reincarnation principles is that, taking the S~G universe as a whole it is a saga not only of adaptation, but of human evolution. Though "he" (are there any female incarnations of Rimon/Klyd/Digen/Klarion?) is not the only mover of human evolution, he has been there thoughout key points in history to nudge things along to the best of his current ability and understanding. Has anyone read Anthony's "Tarot" series? In that, the protagonist is brought through a series of stages in solving his quest. Each stage is based upon Anthony's 100 card Animation Tarot deck. I recommend it to anyone as an example of tarot as the guideposts of a journey. Of course, since the story itself involved direct tarot and other esoteric issues directly, maybe it's not quite applicable to Sime~Gen. A better example would be where a general quest can be charted due to a tarot spread, each card the author may have pulled signifying a challenge or other experience of the protagonist. A common example is a protagonist moving from the Key 00 state, "The Fool" and moves through the levels of mastery to reach "The World." I have seen many books that look upon the 22 card Major Arcana as a Journey or Quest. How this may apply? I can see that the symbols may be in the scenes, but that they might be difficult for most to see. An appendix may address the overview. Follow Your Bliss!! Don ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org djaramillo@xxxxxx.com roburddraig@xxxxxx.com ICQ: 10762090 (Work) ICQ: 2869199 (Home) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:35:43 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >When CD-ROMs for computers arrived on the market six or eight years ago, publishers _rushed_ to start getting their backlist out there. The rush died very quickly when they discovered that _people won't buy them_. > >Look at all the reasons people have given that they don't want to read on-line, and then add "Have to go someplace to buy it, and pay money for it," and you already know why this method of selling fiction didn't work. > >Make it a fast-paced videogame and it will sell. We're working on that, but it's an entirely different thing. The only text CD-ROM anybody owns is the Great Books one that came with a computer bought a few years back--and today no one bothers to go hunt up where that disk went when it's easier to bookmark Project Gutenberg. Jean > > >At 11:04 AM 8/24/98 -0400, Barbara wrote: >>My .02 on this: >> >>What about publishing on CD-ROMs? Admittedly, I don't know >>much about the possible pitfalls, but as a bookaholic who's >>running out of space, I think it'd be *great* to be able to condense >>my 8 walls of books and magazines to something I could pack into >>the back seat if I had to bug out because of Bonnie, or fire or flood... >> >>Barbara Slater >> >>Jenn wrote: >> >>> > JL Writes: >>> > >Personally, I lean toward a simple, straight reprint, perhaps with some >>> > >interior art as the budget might allow, but get the books >>> > >out there as quickly and cheaply as possible. But I don't have the final >>> > say >on this -- so let's hear your opinions. >>> > >> > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:43:54 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sylvia Engdahl Subject: Re: White Wolf Publishing (Was Re: Trade Paper & Enemy Papers) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980824095124.007df8d0@xxxxxx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Gwynhwyfar Moonfire wrote: > I don't know anything about the book, but I do know that judging from the > schedule of gaming books to be released between now and December, White > Wolf is very much in business. (Twenty-nine items among the various > systems between August and December.) They have lists of items to be > released and such on their website. www.white-wolf.com, for those > interested or simply bored. Stephen Pagel, who is the president & editor of Meisha Merlin (which is reprinting my trilogy) was formerly the marketing director for White Wolf. Before that, he was the national buyer of science fiction for Barnes & Noble. So presumably he knows a good deal about what format is most likely to be financially successful. I don't yet know what the price of my omnibus edition will be since it's so far ahead and he tells me the price of paper changes every few months -- but judging from the length and pricing of his other books, I think it will be about $20 plus whatever increase occurs between now and 2000. Sylvia ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ** New edition of my Star Trilogy coming in 2000 from Meisha Merlin! ** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Sylvia Engdahl - Eugene, Oregon Visit my Website! sengdahl@xxxxxx.com http://www.teleport.com/~sengdahl/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:58:52 GMT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jeff Zeitlin Organization: None To Speak Of Subject: BACK: PSO & RTD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RTD is, in this case, "Relativistic Temporal Distortion". At speeds below but a significant fraction of that of light, the travelling objects/people experience RTD - time passes slower for them than for the universe-at-large. How, if at all, would this affect a Sime's Psycho-Spatial Orientation? =20 -- Jeff Zeitlin jeff.zeitlin@xxxxxx.execnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:52:11 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jenn Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980824120154.006e918c@xxxxxx.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at Aug 24, 98 07:01:54 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > All the posts concerning what fans want and don't want, will and will not > (cannot) pay for, are being collected to be given to the publisher, along > with a summary of the results. > > What I saw happening yesterday was a thread beginning, "Let's save money and > sell more books by printing a plain vanilla paperback first instead of a > trade edition." I tried to explain why there is no monetary savings in such > an edition, before you all got your hopes up that you had solved the problem. > > As I feared, it simply confused the issue more. Sorry. Jean > Jean, Congratulations, you've made the programmer's mistake! I'm forever explaining WHY a thing isn't workable rather than just saying 'it's not going to work that way', when the bald statement is a better choice... In this case, the statement 'unfortunately, for a small press that won't actually save any money' would have been enough for /me/. I /know/ that you know more about publishing than I do. :) Jenn V. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:13:05 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:58 PM 8/24/98 GMT, you wrote: >RTD is, in this case, "Relativistic Temporal Distortion". At >speeds below but a significant fraction of that of light, the >travelling objects/people experience RTD - time passes slower for >them than for the universe-at-large. How, if at all, would this >affect a Sime's Psycho-Spatial Orientation? >-- >Jeff Zeitlin >jeff.zeitlin@xxxxxx.execnet.com Now _this_ is an interesting question! Let me see if I can explain. Endowed channels in partnership with Endowed Gens are able to sense the time (position) of the universe at large even while in hyperspace. The Endowed Gen in question must probably be a fanir--what else would that particular talent be _for_? It can't just be to keep Farrises comfortable. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:34:57 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII JLs, et al: Hm...I didn't realize that the print run of the reprinted books would be so small. If it's that small, I'm willing to go higher in price than I stated before, as that would probably be the only way to get a copy. Just as in printing fanzines, the more you publish, the cheaper the printing cost. It's much more expensive per copy to print 10 zines than it is to print 1000. In light of this, I could certainly understand if the small press price is higher than I would normally expect. Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:21:55 -0700 Reply-To: a21711f@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Organization: Murray State University Subject: Re: White Wolf Publishing (Was Re: Trade Paper & Enemy Papers) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gwynhwyfar Moonfire wrote: > > At 07:01 AM 8/24/98 -0500, Jean Lorrah wrote: > > >However--does someone know the whole story of this book? I _heard_ at > >WorldCon, and do not know how accurate the story is, that publishing this > >book bankrupted White Wolf Publishing, which has now gone out of business. > >Does anyone know if this story is true? > > I don't know anything about the book, but I do know that judging from the > schedule of gaming books to be released between now and December, White > Wolf is very much in business. (Twenty-nine items among the various > systems between August and December.) They have lists of items to be > released and such on their website. www.white-wolf.com, for those > interested or simply bored. > > -Gwyn (who really needs more cold medication. Or new lungs.) Ah--that jogged my memory about more of the conversation about White Wolf! The Enemy Mine book supposedly crashed the company financially, so that a gaming book company was able to buy it up cheap. Or maybe it was that other company--Borealis, was it?--that was bankrupted by Enemy Mine and bought up cheap by White Wolf. I still don't remember the details--I'm not sure there were any. You know, I NEVER know when to start taking notes in the midst of casual conversation or while watching television. Weeks later, I find myself wracking my poor aching brain to remember exactly what it was I heard at a time when I didn't think it was something I would ever need to refer to. Jean -- A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If no response in 72 hours, try Jean1@xxxxxx.com. Visit my website, http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:23:06 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Edward Bornstein Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD In-Reply-To: <35e1e0c2.103287147@xxxxxx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jeff Zeitlin wrote: >RTD is, in this case, "Relativistic Temporal Distortion". At >speeds below but a significant fraction of that of light, the >travelling objects/people experience RTD - time passes slower for >them than for the universe-at-large. How, if at all, would this >affect a Sime's Psycho-Spatial Orientation? From what I remember of the one short story that talks about the FTL travel, "Hop, Skip &Jump" IIRC, Tecton ships don't move at relativistic speeds, they just jump interstellar distances in an instant. So relativistic time effects will not come into it. The whole concept of Psycho-Spatial Orientation (and Psycho-Temporal Orientation) strongly suggests that the S~G universe is one with a "preferred reference frame" as they say over in rec.arts.sf.written. But the theory of relativity says that there _isn't_ a preferred reference frame. That's what the term "relativity" means. There is no such thing as "absolute time" or "absolute location." I've watched a lot of these arguments on rec.arts.sf.science, and the consensus is that trying to put in technical explanations/rationalizations doesn't make the science better. Just say what the drive does, and what it's limitations are, but not how or why. Breaking that rule myself... Since FTL travel necessarily involves time travel, perhaps part of the reason you need Simes is to make sure you come out at the right time to avoid paradox? -- "We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech," - David Brin Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:32:30 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Captain Button wrote: > >The whole concept of Psycho-Spatial Orientation (and Psycho-Temporal >Orientation) strongly suggests that the S~G universe is one with a >"preferred reference frame" as they say over in rec.arts.sf.written. > >But the theory of relativity says that there _isn't_ a preferred reference >frame. That's what the term "relativity" means. There is no such thing >as "absolute time" or "absolute location." > JL here -- actually, though I haven't done any RECENT updating work on the spacedrive theory I invented in the '50's and then updated to the '70's -- I suspect that the S~G Universe theory does NOT INCLUDE a "preferred reference frame" nor does it postulate that Relativity (a product of the '20's I believe) is the absolute end of our growing understanding of Reality. I suspect that what I'll end up with -- if/as/when I ever get to write my novel about the invention of the interstellar space drive for S~G -- is a combination of both theories with a third factor that probably hasn't been discussed in the Literature yet (I mean the Lit of Physics -- basic research level). I suspect the theory I'm going to use has already been discussed in the Lit of Math Research, though. Usually the Math tools precede the Physics by a few decades. Psychospacial Orientation is the Sime's sense of his/her position in space RELATIVE to what he/she PERCEIVES (subjective) as the Center of Things -- here on Earth that would probably be the Center of the Milky Way Galaxy -- a very large Mass around which lots of stuff rotates that would form enough of a distortion in whatever-it-is-that-Simes-Sense for it to be perceived as an Absolute Reference Point. But move that Sime to another Galaxy -- or out Between Galaxies, and you'd have another situation entirely -- I expect. (I haven't tried the experiment yet.) As Gene Roddenberry taught me, I am restraining myself from inventing things I don't yet need to tell a specific story. When I have that story to tell, I'll know the answer. Right now I'm actually working on developing the background details for FARRIS CHANNEL. JL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:42:45 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: I sent my post in answer to Capt Button before I read Jean's answer here: >Now _this_ is an interesting question! Let me see if I can explain. > >Endowed channels in partnership with Endowed Gens are able to sense the time >(position) of the universe at large even while in hyperspace. The Endowed >Gen in question must probably be a fanir--what else would that particular >talent be _for_? It can't just be to keep Farrises comfortable. Jean > Nope -- Endowment has nothing to do with it at all. Astrogation is ordinarily a renSime's job -- any Sime can do this work, though as with all human functions some people are better at it than others and some actually like doing it whereas it would drive others to suicide! In EASY AS HOP, SKIP, JUMP (on Tecton Central) -- Klairon is doing this Astrogation job because he's in a real bad spot in his life, in disgrace and all sorts of problems, and he's essentially hiding in a deep hole by working for the Pebble Beach. The Galaxy has forgotten that such a thing as a Sectuib In Zeor exists, and that's how he wants it. He's horrified to be recognized. The theory is that among all the species in the galaxy, only humans are split into Sime and Gen, and thus only humans can astrogate ships equiped with this very fast and convenient space-drive. Other speices might have other space-drives, but this one is more reliable (when astrogated by a Sime) and faster and cheaper, etc etc -- so that humanity (read Keon) ends up in a position of economic dominance in the galaxy. This does not make humanity much beloved among species, and thereby hangs many a tale. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts.html for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:59:25 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean wrote: >>When CD-ROMs for computers arrived on the market six or eight years ago, >publishers _rushed_ to start getting their backlist out there. The rush >died very quickly when they discovered that _people won't buy them_. >> >>Look at all the reasons people have given that they don't want to read >on-line, and then add "Have to go someplace to buy it, and pay money for >it," and you already know why this method of selling fiction didn't work. >> There is that problem of trying to lean back, relax and enjoy yourself staring at a computer screen after you've worked 8 or 10 hours all day at a computer and just don't wanna anymore. But there's ANOTHER reason text won't sell on cd-rom. CD-rom text is expensive to buy, and it's in a MEDIUM that is going to be un-reachable in a couple years. A book you can put on your shelves for your grandchildren to inhereit -- or hide under the bed to seduce your perverse 12 year old who refuses to read into reading "secret stuff". The book will always be accessible as long as the paper doesn't rot. (and as long as text-forms don't change too much). But that CD-rom has to be read by a machine, and they keep changing the machine formats. I think people want two kinds of books - cheap ones to throw away if they're no good or have outlived their purpose. And sturdy ones that last generations. One other thing people want of their books these days is that they shouldn't kill trees to make them and that the books shouldn't take any space to store, or cost a fortune to move every time you have to relocate. The Web-posting idea using advertising to pay for the fiction, so it's free to the reader, takes care of the cheap-and-toss requirement -- except so far you can't read it in the bathtub until they make a floating notebook. The CD-Rom that will sell like crazy will be the one that that lasts forever, is indestructible, (you can leave it on the back seat of your car in Las Vegas at noon during August and it still works after the cats play with it) can be read any number of times, and doesn't require any machinery besides itself to read. Such as -- the little hologram projector things they showed on ST. Self-contained, and it always works. We are a long, long, long way from developing a gizmo like that. So while I'm wishing, I'm going to wish for it to come "empty" and you get to fill it with whatever fiction you want to keep -- and then if you decide to, you can empty it and fill it up with different words that you'd prefer to keep. Re-writable self-contained, and take very little space but hold terabytes of data. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts.html for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:18:55 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sandy Steiner Subject: OT: New list for fans with chronic illness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It's me again. I really will have to post something S~G soon! BTW, thanks to everyone who told me of their experiences with web TV. It turns out not to be a good choice for my mother, as she is in a remote area and the toll calls would be excessive. I found the following on a Blake's 7 mailing list and thought it might generate some interest here. > > Sorry to be so off-topic, but I want to get the word on this new list out > to as many fans as possible. Please forward this to other fannish lists > that don't show up on the 'to' line...I know there's a lot of lists out > there that I'm not on and don't know about. > > Since I got Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME to non-Americans), I became more > aware that there are quite a few fans who have chronic health problems of > some sort, and that we have special problems we don't necessarily want to > talk/bitch about in other forums...problems with attending cons, writing, > keeping up with mailing lists, etc. ChronicFans is intended as a casual > forum to talk about these things in the company of other fans in the same > situation...it has to be casual, since as a CFS patients myself, I don't > have the energy for being a heavy moderator! And, I should emphasize, it's > not only for people with CFS, but for fans with any kind of chronic > problem/illness and/or their partners/friends. > > To subscribe, go to: > > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fanschronic > > and follow the directions on the page. At the same time, please send me a > note at pan1@xxxxxx.net and tell me which fandom you're in/what list you saw > this on. Since the list is on the Onelist directory, I do this to make sure > everyone who joins is a fan before I approve the subscription. BTW, despite > what it might say in the legalese you see on Onelist, I made sure that this > list is =not= archived, so your words on the list will not go down in > history. > > If you have any questions, write me at pan1@xxxxxx.net. > > --Pat > > > ___________________________________________________ > Pat Nussman-Jacquerie pan1@xxxxxx.net or patjacqu@xxxxxx.com > > http://members.aol.com/patjacqu/ ( B7 adult and slash fanfic) > http://members.aol.com/fargoneone/ (B7 slash universe) > http://members.aol.com/patnussman/ (SW & B7 gen) > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:24:45 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: LIST MIGRATION Comments: cc: LadyEliza MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: (Attn: Jenn and Eliza) We are now hoping that SIU won't pull the plug on us until: A)Jenn gets back home and can be physically present when we start leaning on simegen.com to support this List. B)Tori gets back home right after Labor Day. SIU may well purge its files during Labor Day. If the List posts completely disappear, go to www.simegen.com/contacts.html for instructions. If there are problems getting the List working form simegen.com, instructions will be posted there. Meanwhile, don't forget we have bulletin boards too. You'll find them on the webring. Bookmark them and check there for any discussions. Someone emailed me that they had a problem trying to sign up for our email newsletter -- and a few days ago, the area where simegen.com is hosted had a power outage that put us down for a bit. (Thanks to Dancer and Jenn simegen.com got up and running again.) If we disappear, remember it's only temporary. If you're completely NEW TO THE WEB -- please understand that there are always problems with cyberspace. We're still doing Model-T Ford-on-Dirt-Road and changing our tires ourselves every few miles. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts.html for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:37:42 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: CD Roms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone who wants to type them all out and send over to me I'll burn em onto a CD for ya. LOL Happy typing! Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:00:19 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: CD Roms > > Anyone who wants to type them all out and send over to me I'll burn em > onto a CD for ya. > > LOL > > Happy typing! > > Eliza > Hee hee! That's what I plan to do when the books get posted to the Web--I'm gonna pull 'em all down and make myself a Sime~Gen CD! :) (Of course I'm gonna buy the print copies too, but it'll be nice to have searchable copies.) --Robyn (yeah, I got a new CD rewritable drive this weekend, plus 8.6 GB of new hard disk space... I'm a happy nerd! :) ) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No time today to hunt for this--I'm just checking e-mail over supper before diving back into the novel synopsis--but folks who have all the zines & stuff at your fingertips--isn't this the first time Jacqueline has said renSimes can astrogate? Wasn't there an assumption that the Endowment was necessary? Anyone remember any of this? Jean At 04:42 PM 8/25/98 -0400, Jacqueline wrote: >Folks: > >I sent my post in answer to Capt Button before I read Jean's answer here: > >>Now _this_ is an interesting question! Let me see if I can explain. >> >>Endowed channels in partnership with Endowed Gens are able to sense the time >>(position) of the universe at large even while in hyperspace. The Endowed >>Gen in question must probably be a fanir--what else would that particular >>talent be _for_? It can't just be to keep Farrises comfortable. Jean >> > >Nope -- Endowment has nothing to do with it at all. > >Astrogation is ordinarily a renSime's job -- any Sime can do this work, though > as with all human functions some people are better at >it than others and some actually like doing it whereas it would drive others to > suicide! > >In EASY AS HOP, SKIP, JUMP (on Tecton Central) -- Klairon is doing this > Astrogation job because he's in a real bad spot in his life, >in disgrace and all sorts of problems, and he's essentially hiding in a deep > hole by working for the Pebble Beach. The Galaxy has >forgotten that such a thing as a Sectuib In Zeor exists, and that's how he wants > it. He's horrified to be recognized. > >The theory is that among all the species in the galaxy, only humans are split > into Sime and Gen, and thus only humans can astrogate >ships equiped with this very fast and convenient space-drive. Other speices > might have other space-drives, but this one is more >reliable (when astrogated by a Sime) and faster and cheaper, etc etc -- so that > humanity (read Keon) ends up in a position of >economic dominance in the galaxy. > >This does not make humanity much beloved among species, and thereby hangs many a > tale. > >Live Long and Prosper, >Jacqueline Lichtenberg >S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts.html for info. >THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and > at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, >"The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is > complete in first draft. >Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to > get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. > >I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED > DNQ or in some way obviously personal. >My SF Review Column is posted monthly at > http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian >Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton >Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at > http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:09:42 GMT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jeff Zeitlin Organization: None To Speak Of Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD In-Reply-To: <199808250500.AAA40742@xxxxxx.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:00:38 -0500, Jean Lorrah wrote: >At 09:58 PM 8/24/98 GMT, you wrote: >>RTD is, in this case, "Relativistic Temporal Distortion". At >>speeds below but a significant fraction of that of light, the >>travelling objects/people experience RTD - time passes slower for >>them than for the universe-at-large. How, if at all, would this >>affect a Sime's Psycho-Spatial Orientation? >Now _this_ is an interesting question! Let me see if I can explain. >Endowed channels in partnership with Endowed Gens are able to sense the = time >(position) of the universe at large even while in hyperspace. The = Endowed >Gen in question must probably be a fanir--what else would that = particular >talent be _for_? It can't just be to keep Farrises comfortable. Jean OK, but you're speaking of hyperspace - by implication, a _faster_ than light drive (which in the S~G universe, according to either one of Jacqueline's stories or discussion here, I forget which, requires selyn-powered "electronics" for use while in transit) - whereas I'm talking about _normal_ space, i.e., you're not going faster than light, just a _big_ fraction of that speed - the realm of physics where you get mass and length and time being non-constant, but you still don't have even theoretical violations of causality. And it's space where you don't need selyn to power things. There's lots of math associated with the phenomenon, but the exact equations are irrelevant. Suffice it to say that when you're travelling at those speeds from Earth to A Centauri, it might seem to you like you're travelling for only one year - but when you finally get there, and check your clocks against the "real world", you find that five years has actually gone by. With most hyperspatial drives, there is an implicit one-to-one ratio of time passage (and a lot of argument that it's impossible because by proper choice of frame of reference, you can arrive before you leave, thus violating both conservation of mass-energy and causality). To the person experiencing the high-speed frame of reference, everything is normal (well, we'll ignore what happens when he tries to look outside the ship and sees weird color changes and other distortions outside; this is all predicted by modern science, and can be expected). However, to an outside observer, the inside observer's time sense and other measurement facilities are "distorted" - the outside observer thinks that the inside observer's mass has increased, his length has decreased, and time is passing more slowly. For two Ancients or two Gens, who don't seem to have a psycho-spatial orientation sense, this isn't an issue; when they get done, it becomes just a matter of correcting clocks; mass and length are self-correcting. For the outside observer being Sime, it's also irrelevant, as _he_ isn't experiencing the distortion. However, if the _inside_ observer is Sime, we may have a problem - and that's what I need to know - do we? Logic suggests that we might, if Simes falling asleep while in motion presents an uncomfortable situation ordinarily (even if not on selyn-powered transportation). -- Jeff Zeitlin jeff.zeitlin@xxxxxx.execnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:08:54 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Janet Coleman Sides Subject: Re: CD Roms In-Reply-To: <199808252200.PAA16562@xxxxxx.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eliza quoth: >> Anyone who wants to type them all out and send over to me I'll burn em >> onto a CD for ya. >> >> LOL >> >> Happy typing! and Robyn replied: >Hee hee! That's what I plan to do when the books get >posted to the Web--I'm gonna pull 'em all down and >make myself a Sime~Gen CD! :) > >(Of course I'm gonna buy the print copies too, >but it'll be nice to have searchable copies.) > >--Robyn (yeah, I got a new CD rewritable drive this > weekend, plus 8.6 GB of new hard disk space... > I'm a happy nerd! :) ) I too have just acquired a CD burner (though just a regular writable). It was our anniversary gift to each other... Brock's co-workers, whose wives all want jewelry or perfume or etc., envy Brock: I always ask for hardware! Actually, just yesterday I was poking about in the Gutenberg Project site, thinking of some texts I'd like to acquire. You know, some of those classics that you always meant to get around to reading. "Walden", however, is too big to fit a CD, at least uncompressed. And what -- only *one* Oz book?? Another great plus -- you can design your own covers. I would also buy the S~G reprints, even if I could download them. All I ask is that they be well-made enough to *last*. Janet Coleman Sides http://magibox.net/~storybox -- Release that dream into the world -- Alphaville ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:08:04 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980825225920.006faaf0@xxxxxx.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at Aug 25, 98 05:59:20 pm Content-Type: text Jean wrote: > No time today to hunt for this--I'm just checking e-mail over supper before > diving back into the novel synopsis--but folks who have all the zines & > stuff at your fingertips--isn't this the first time Jacqueline has said > renSimes can astrogate? Wasn't there an assumption that the Endowment was > necessary? And are channels and Companions the only ones with the Endowment? Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:02:20 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Ronnie Bob Whitaker Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jean Lorrah Asks: >No time today to hunt for this--I'm just checking e-mail over supper before >diving back into the novel synopsis--but folks who have all the zines & >stuff at your fingertips--isn't this the first time Jacqueline has said >renSimes can astrogate? Wasn't there an assumption that the Endowment was >necessary? >Anyone remember any of this? Jean The following are from AZ#4 reprint of Easy as Hop, Skip and Jump by Jacqueline Lichtenberg: The Astrogator was always a Sime because, of all the intelligent species, only that human variant, the Sime, had psycho-spatial orientation, the ability to know exactly where he was even in subspace (or the Interlude as the Simes termed it), and to detect the fields of the Reeves projectors that marked the Beakons. "We all know that it's against regulations for you to astrogate for the very good reason that you're not in top form until you've had your transfer. We realize that a Sime can go berserk under too much stress, but there's a couple of weeks safety factor in the rule, and you're a QN-1. If anybody can take hardship, a QN-1 can do it twice over. And it's only a ten day run to Port In Brim. Duck soup for an ordinary Sime, let alone a channel. And that's civilization. If here they have only one TN-1, there they have a dozen. "You won't mess us up." Minkin's relief was plain to read. The PEBBLE BEACH was a clean and efficient ship, but run definitely on the casual side. That was one of the reasons Klairon was so well-liked. Few Simes were casual with Gens, and even fewer multi-talented QN-1s found their way into the merchant service where everyone pitched in on two or three jobs to reduce overhead. Not every Astrogator would or could service all selyn-powered systems. The crew of the PEBBLE BEACH considered themselves very lucky. RBW Comments: Thus, I always presumed and assumed that ordinary renSimes were the majority of Astrogators and that Channels were the exception. (I got this from reading HSJ sections above.) Endowment was clearly used by the channel in "Channels Exemption" but in HSJ, the talent to navigate was based on PSO (psycho-spatial orientation) that all simes have. Most ships had larger quarters for the Sime Astrogators and normally the Simes did not mingle with the rest of the crew, so spent more time in their quarters than the channel did in this story. Also, most Sime Astrogators couldn't handle all of the servicing of the selyn-powered systems as Klairon did, so this crew considered themselves lucky. John Shimwell had the following things to say about related topics in the Sime~Gen Concordance. Sime~Gen Concordance: astrogator - the Sime navigator on board a spaceship, HSJ.45. See psycho-spatial orientation, Brightman Effect. Beacon Planet - one of many barren worlds, whose only use to humans was its automatic navigation beacon. (see entry below). Yone Farris's ship crashed on one, CE.4. Beakon - artificially generated fields used in space navigation, and visible to Sime astrogators, HSJ.57. This was achieved by installing Reeves projectors (q.v.) on uninhabited planets, HSJ.45. [Probably a typo for Beacon, above.] See Yone Farris. Brightman Effect - the scientific discovery which allowed hyperspace jump technology to become a reality, but which required Sime astrogators in order to navigate, HSJ.45. See Psychospatial Orientation. Reeves projector - a field generator that was used in space as a marker buoy or Beakon (q.v.), HSJ.45. Its use required the use of astrogators on board spaceships, such as Klairon Farris. - "Standard markers used to supplement lights by creating an interference pattern any Sime can sense." Mairus Farris turned them on at the camp where he and the Fieldmans were being held prisoner, so they could be located, OHT.10. See astrogator. psychospatial orientation - the sense through which a Sime discerns his or her placement in the universe. It is connected to the internal clock which measures selyn consumption, and seems to have evolved to assist a Sime in hunting Gens. Orientation can be disrupted seriously for some hours by moving an unconscious Sime without expert selyn field management. (JL). See entry above. Klyd Farris, HZ.154; Ercy Farris, MT.116, MT.128. These were all found from a quick search of my own fanzines and I don't ever remember the ability to navigate for Simes ever being connected to the Endowment and certainly had the impression that ordinary Simes were the mainstay of the astrogation force. I'm open to being proven wrong, however. Having Fun in the Sime~Gen Universe, Ronnie Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:50:10 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: CD Roms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/98 3:02:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rking@xxxxxx.COM writes: << Eliza > Hee hee! That's what I plan to do when the books get posted to the Web--I'm gonna pull 'em all down and make myself a Sime~Gen CD! :) >> I sense the beginning of a very profitable business here! Could you work from a scanned printed copy? VBG Wendy Fisher fishydu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:15:51 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: CD Roms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:50 PM 8/25/98 EDT, Wendy wrote: >In a message dated 8/25/98 3:02:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >rking@xxxxxx.COM writes: > ><< Eliza > > > > Hee hee! That's what I plan to do when the books get > posted to the Web--I'm gonna pull 'em all down and > make myself a Sime~Gen CD! :) >> As long as you keep it to and for yourself, and do not provide copies to anyone else, you are within your legal rights. >I sense the beginning of a very profitable business here! Could you work from >a scanned printed copy? VBG Big grin or no big grin, the moment you _distribute_ a copy to anyone, for money or trade or as a gift, without first obtaining written permission from the copyright holders, you are breaking international copyright law and forcing us to stop you. If we don't take legal action against copyright infringers we cannot offer any publisher a clear copyright. Sometimes what appears to be a harmless joke can cause a serious problem. Please don't tease about something that could have very serious repercussions if anyone thought it sounded harmless and so went ahead and did it. It could invalidate our copyrights and therefore our contracts with any and all publishers in any medium. That would not be a humorous situation. In the very short as well as the long run, everyone would lose. Other writers have been forced into the unhappy situation of taking legal action against their fans. Please don't make that happen to Jacqueline or me. Sorry to come down so hard on what was obviously meant as a joke. Some things are just not funny. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:02:35 -0500 Reply-To: drjanetd@xxxxxx.net Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Janet Dornhoff, DVM" Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion & libraries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LadyEliza wrote: > > When I found "Unto Zeor Forever" in a second hand shop the very first thing > I did was to check my local library for JL's name. Nothing. From then on, > every time I drove past a library I went in and did a search on her name. > Nothing. This is a DREADFUL state of affairs! I had been scrounging copies of Sime~Gen books at used bookstores for years. My local library system actually *did* have copies of a few of the books in hardcover, but no paperbacks (which are far more popular there). So, when I assembled my collection and hauled them to Chicon/WorldCon 'lo these many years ago, to have them all autographed by the JL's, I stacked up the duplicates and asked them to sign those to the Urbana Free Library. I then donated them when I got home, being careful to point out the inscription. Last I checked, they were still on the shelf. ;-) You're right about the need for library copies. I've gotten hooked on many a series there, then bought them all because I got tired of waiting on someone else working their way through the series one book ahead of me (and half as fast). If we do get a new run, I plan on buying two copies of the whole thing and donating one to my new local library and one to my old hometown one. (And I'll tell them that if they want to get rid of the old copies, I'll happily take them back...) I was spoiled; I didn't have to rely on the public library system. I grew up on the Univ. of Illinois campus, and their library is huge and their computer search system is fantastic! They were able to find just about any book I ever requested (eventually). They may have had to have it mailed from New Jersey, but they got it. I'm not sure what the penny pinchers would think of turning their vast resources onto locating "Channel's Destiny" (or "Too Sane a Murder" or "Is There a Doctor In The Zoo?") for some math prof's teenage kid, but hey, I wasn't gonna tell them I wasn't doing my doctoral thesis on the series! ;-) -Janet "The development of the human race hasn't just stopped...the world is changing out of all recognition, and humanity is changing with it." -Carol, "The Tomorrow People" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:11:11 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: aussie slang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I thought the Americans amoungst us might appreciate some help in understanding our lingo. Although everything we say is ace, you people seem to think we blokes all speak bull dust. Struth! Nothing could be further from the truth! Fair enough, we might seem a bit lame brain via email, but it's a cert that if we could sit down and chew the fat you'd reckon we're alright after all. I'll cop it sweet if I have made a balls up of anything, but fair crack of the whip! If you don't know what we are saying, how do you know that you got the rough end of the pineapple? To help out I found this bonza page on the net that'll help you get a leg up on Aussie Slang. So next time we confuse you with our yabba, don't spit the dummy, just hang a ticket and go visit http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gapruns/slang.html Hope that helps Eliza ambrov Halwyn Pally to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:48:32 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion & libraries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My idea of "library copies" are duplicate copies of the novels I own and lend out to friends who I think would like the series. Libraries for the most part, can locate books and purchase them on their own. After a number of years, the "old" books are trotted off to the used book sale at a library and usually sold for 25 cents to a dollar. Many used book purchases from libraries then may end up at yard sales and flea markets. Unfortunately, I have also heard that used books are found in recycling drives and then no longer available. This doesn't apply to just reading material, but also religious books (e.g. Prayer Books) as well. The same thing seems to apply to the National Library Service's (U.S.A.) Recordings for the Blind and Handicapped. They keep their recorded books circulating for a number of years and then pull them -- never to be heard from again. It is unlikely you can now request any of the Lichtenberg and Lorrah titles the NLS once had available (e.g. House of Zeor, Unto Zeor Forever, Savage Empire). ------- Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:17:14 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: CD Roms Jean writes: > > > > > Hee hee! That's what I plan to do when the books get > > posted to the Web--I'm gonna pull 'em all down and > > make myself a Sime~Gen CD! :) >> > > As long as you keep it to and for yourself, and do not provide copies to > anyone else, you are within your legal rights. > Jean, I assure you, that was all I ever intended to do. Just curious, though--I'm pretty much up on copyright issues, but what is the law regarding stuff that's posted to the Web? I know that the copyright holders still legally own the work, and that it's illegal for anyone else to make a profit from it, but if it's posted on the Web for all to see/read/grab with the blessing of the copyright holders, then would it be illegal to make a CD and give it to a friend? I don't intend to do this--truth is, I'll probably end up being too lazy to make one for myself!--but I was curious. Thanks, --Robyn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:16:40 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: BACK: WORK: Found my Channel's Life-Expectancy Chart!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: (see my sig file for warning about List Migration) I found this chart in the FARRIS CHANNEL box that suddenly emerged from the clutter here. Someone should post this on the Web somewhere where we can use it for reference (we being the folks writing in this universe, and the folks reading it and trying to figure it out). This chart was done for Zelerod's Doom but as background, not to be published. This one pertains to Channels, but the same basic principles apply to renSimes and even Gens though the numbers of years and details of lifestyle might vary. A Chart like this couldn't possibly exist in the time of Zelerod's Doom -- it takes Unity, long record keeping, lots and lots of data on lots of people living vastly different lifestyles to get a complete picture of what's really happening. It takes more individuals in a study to get a statistical picture where Simes and Gens are concerned because of the even greater genetic variances among Simes and among Gens -- and the fact that (if you start trying to do this too early in the mutation) you are still seeing new submutations appear and muddy the picture. You have to compare apples to apples to find out how root grafting affects apple shelf-life. If you count some oranges as apples, your numbers won't make sense. SO YOU CAN MAKE YOURSELF THIS CHART TO STUDY: Draw a long horizontal line across the paper (screen?) Put 9 overlapping Bell Shaped distribution curves along that line so the peaks of the curves are distinctly separated, but the lower assymptotic skirts deeply overlap -- so that the front end of one curve is under the center of the next one. Put the 5th one of these curves much closer to the 4th one -- only 5 years on the scale separate them, while the other curves have a typical distance of 10 years or so from them. The tops of the bell curves can be a little flattened if you're that good an artist (I'm not, mine are all very irregular looking, to put it kindly.) TIME (or AGE) is the horizontal axis here. The vertical axis is the number of individuals in a population that reach that age. Each distribution curve represents a lifestyle that tends to produce the corresponding life-expectancy. At the end of the line on your left side, put a verticle line and label it CHANGEOVER. The ages are in years after changeover. Now, from the peak of each curve, draw a verticle line down below the horizontal line so you can label the verticle lines and thus the peaks. The peak represents the age at which the majority of that population would die. Or put another way - life-expectancy. The first peak to the right of the line labeled CHANGEOVER is labeled A. The last peak on the far right of the paper (screen) is labeled H. 9 of them altogether but there are two labeled D. Remember, these lifestyles pertain only to channels. A) junct - not using Secondary system -- Kills only. 5-10 years (that's the peak of the first distribution curve - so it means that most junct channels would die 5 to 10 years after changeover pre-Unity. B) Killing and Channeling (i.e. trained, working, junct Channels) - 10-20 years C) semi-junct & not Channeling -- 20-30 years is the PEAK (remember individuals can be anywhere on the curve) D) semi-junct & Channeling -- about 35 years. D-1 ) Disjunct & NOT Channeling -- about 40 years -- this is the pair that's very close together. (This is Jean's new shiltpron playing Channel, Zhag. Well, sort of. Jean's characters never fit the molds exactly you know.) E) Disjunct and Channeling (this is Frevven) 40-45 years -- note how little difference working as a Channel makes in life expectancy of the disjunct channel. That's why the Tecton stopped training and using Disjunct Channels -- very little to be gained by the Channel, and a lot to be gained by Society (by keeping the junct-taint away from the personal experience of the non-junct.) F)Non-junct and NOT Channeling -- 50 years G) Nonjunct and Channeling - 60 years H) Technically junct, Channeling, Endowed and using Endowment --- 120+ years to way off the scale. (of course that pertains if and only if the Technically Junct never goes Junct! Which is not likely unless society is such that the opportunity to go junct doesn't present itself very often.) This is Digen -- sort of. I hope the List is still working those who enjoy the BACKGROUND posts get this one. It's about WORLD BUILDING and thus also belongs on the WORKSHOP. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts.html for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:22:56 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Subject: Re: aussie slang In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980826031108.00711024@xxxxxx..au> from "LadyEliza" at Aug 26, 98 03:11:11 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LadyEliza scripsit: > I thought the Americans amoungst us might appreciate some help in > understanding our lingo. Hmm, strange. I understood every word of that. > http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gapruns/slang.html An interesting site, which I'll check out further. Hate to tell you this, but a lot of this slang is straight Pommy. (200 years and a revolution makes a big difference over here.) I was struck by the definition of "Bob's your uncle" as "you just understood something that at first you did not understand"; I take this phrase to mean "All's well", as in "Click here and Bob's your uncle." -- John Cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:38:47 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: S~G Trivia test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Listfolk (beware the List Migration may prevent me from getting your replies to this). I just started sketching the beginning of THE FARRIS CHANNEL. At Worldcon, Jean and I brainstormed with Anne about how to jigsaw this story into the existing background and fit it around the not-yet-existing background -- i.e. things we plan to write. When I got home, my first job was the ransack the office looking for what I had on disk of the 8 extant novels, and I failed to find those disks. Whereupon Ronnie Bob Whitaker rescued me by sending his scanned copies of the novels -- which are actually far superior for our purposes because they are the published text. In the process of ransacking the office, the house, the garage etc. -- I stumbled upon a ms. box labeled CD-SEQUEL THE FARRIS CHANNEL. Up to that point, all that remained of that original concept for FRCH had been the (black) binder with a printout from 4 computers ago outlining what I had then intended that book to be. Meanwhile, all kinds of great ideas had been surfacing at random in my mind, and I'd been scribbling notes to myself about scenes that had to be in the book. Of course, THE FARRIS CHANNEL is not the sequel to CD -- COMPANIONS is the sequel to CD, but Jean hasn't written that yet, and at the moment is living in Gulf Territory at the time of Unity where Nivet Territory History isn't the biggest topic on everyone's minds. So she doesn't exactly know what COMPANIONS will contain. THE FARRIS CHANNEL is a sequel to COMPANIONS. Finding that box crystalized something that Jean had said at Worldcon, and MORE IDEAS began to pour forth. I suddenly know why the Villain of this piece is a Villain, and exactly what the fate of that Villain will be in the end. And you know what - the notation I found in that box about one of the characters I wanted in FARRIS CHANNEL is dated 1984, and I had totally (consciously) forgotten about that intriguing character. That character re-emerged from my subconscious as the Villain for this book -- originally that wasn't the idea at all. But with that piece of the puzzle, lots of other parts of the book began to fall into place, and the characters are beginning to vie with each other to get their personal stories told. One of the triggers for all this was Marge Robbins' writing of that story that is posted on the Chanel website, where I rewrote her dialogue for Klyd Farris, and wrote a private scene in his office where he discusses the heart of Zeor. I cried while I wrote that scene -- and I cried a few moments ago when I wrote the first 4 pages of THE FARRIS CHANNEL's 1998 incarnation (and I don't even know the Villain's name yet!). So while I SHOULD be putting all my output energy into re-launching the books in reprint and in web-availability -- I find myself prematurely (I wasn't supposed to write this book until Feb '99) wallowing in plot/story fragments. And you know what? I just failed the S~G Trivia Test resoundingly! 1)I do not know if the birth of Del Rimon Farris (the child of Zeth Farris and Jana) was actually in the pubished books, or if born, was that child named in print? I've known that kid, boy and man for over 10 years so I have no idea what's said in print about him. I just know his life's story. I need to know what season of the year he was born in. 2)I'm trying to figure out the time line -- and I don't know if we established in print how old Rimon was when Zeth was born -- or how old Zeth was when Del Rimon was born. I need to know if we established in print (by inference -- I don't think by exact words) the time-span from the beginning of FIRST CHANNEL to the end of CHANNEL'S DESTINY. I need to know how old everyone was when they died, too. I used to have all this set up on 3by5 cards, but those cards are apprently gone. 3)I don't know how long a time-span Jean needs to cover COMPANIONS' events -- COMPANIONS ends with the fissioning of FORT FREEDOM into a lot of smaller groups that scatter in hopes that some of them will survive. COMPANIONS establishes most firmly the power and position of the Gens within the Forts. I need to know all this because I have to figure out how old Del Rimon is at the time THE FARRIS CHANNEL begins -- I think he's 48 natal years -- 4)I don't know if we established in print what age Delri (Del Rimon) was when he changed over. As I recall, he was 11 -- typical for a Farris Channel, but not as early as Digen's changeover. I need to know that so I can figure out how "old" he is, after-changeover years -- provided I'm right about how old he is in FARRIS CHANNEL. 5) Where on the map was FORT FREEDOM -- (I think we've established that in one or another article in the fanzines somewhere -- BTW: even stuff mentioned in the 'zines isn't graven in stone. Once writing starts, all kinds of "facts" can mutate creatively.) I'd really like to know what we've actually established about the various locations of Zeor, so I can make a valliant stab at consistency. 6) I've already thrown out most of what I was using as an outline when I discovered I needed a really good name for a Villain who's a Partially Endowed Farris Channel gone junct. That character is still the pivotal influence in this novel -- but themes and conflicts have shifted around in my mind a lot. This is the fun part of writing -- where nothing is fixed, and you can have a dozen versions of the story running through your mind at once. Talk about a three-ring circus! So NAME ME THAT VILLAIN. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts.html for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:41:51 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Kerry and Donell: Hurricane Comments: cc: wlong72@xxxxxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For those of you who know Kerry Lindemann Schaefer and Donell Meadows, I thought I would pass along this message I received. Let's hope they can ride this storm out safely. << Subj: Hurricane Date: 98-08-26 13:48:34 EDT From: (Kerry Schaefer) To: (Karen Litman) Nothing spectacular happening here yet. Rain, some wind. My cable went out, so can't watch the Weather Channel. If it floods, it will be later on today. I expect to lose power, so will probably shut down my computer soon to avoid damage. I have water, food, candles, etc. Have also parked my car on higher ground than near my house, just in case. So far, so good. Kerry >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:52:32 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: Kerry and Donell: Hurricane MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: Karen passed on to us from Kerry and Donell: > Nothing spectacular happening here yet. Rain, some wind. My cable went > out, so can't watch the Weather Channel. If it floods, it will be later on > today. I expect to lose power, so will probably shut down my computer soon > to avoid damage. I have water, food, candles, etc. Have also parked my > car on higher ground than near my house, just in case. > So far, so good. > Kerry > >> > Kerry is the author of the Frevven stories you all liked so much, and the AZ editor who got us through so many years of fighting rising paper/postage prices and increasing volubility among our authors. Donell plays the shiltpron -- and we are hoping they both get through this mess and can come to Darkover! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:00:31 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Captain Button Subject: Re: S~G Trivia test In-Reply-To: <002e01bdd118$624bd880$1d7a5ed1@xxxxxx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jacqueline Lichtenberg wrote: [ text voided in entran attack ] > So while I SHOULD be putting all my output energy into re-launching > the books in reprint and in web-availability -- I find myself > prematurely (I wasn't supposed to write this book until Feb '99) > wallowing in plot/story fragments. > > And you know what? I just failed the S~G Trivia Test resoundingly! > > 1)I do not know if the birth of Del Rimon Farris (the child of Zeth > Farris and Jana) was actually in the pubished books, or if born, was > that child named in print? I've known that kid, boy and man for over > 10 years so I have no idea what's said in print about him. I just > know his life's story. I need to know what season of the year he was > born in. It isn't. I don't even recall any mention of any relationship (or boinking) between Zeth and Jana. This is complete news to me. > 2)I'm trying to figure out the time line -- and I don't know if we > established in print how old Rimon was when Zeth was born -- or how > old Zeth was when Del Rimon was born. I need to know if we > established in print (by inference -- I don't think by exact words) > the time-span from the beginning of FIRST CHANNEL to the end of > CHANNEL'S DESTINY. I need to know how old everyone was when they > died, too. I used to have all this set up on 3by5 cards, but those > cards are apprently gone. Rimon at Zeth's birth: I think this can be deduced from _First Channel_. IIRC, it gives a number of years since Rimon's changeover at the beginning, and we can then add on the duration in the book to Zeth's Birth. I also think we can work out from _Channel's Destiny_ the ages of Rimon and Kadi at death also. There's also the timelines in paperbacks of FC and _Rensime_ which may have some input, though they are mostly to large scale for that. I'll try and look at my books to see. > 4)I don't know if we established in print what age Delri (Del Rimon) > was when he changed over. As I recall, he was 11 -- typical for a > Farris Channel, but not as early as Digen's changeover. I need to > know that so I can figure out how "old" he is, after-changeover years > -- provided I'm right about how old he is in FARRIS CHANNEL. I don't think there is *any* mention of Delri in the published books. I can't say about the zines, I don't have them all, AFAIK. > 5) Where on the map was FORT FREEDOM -- (I think we've established > that in one or another article in the fanzines somewhere -- BTW: even > stuff mentioned in the 'zines isn't graven in stone. Once writing > starts, all kinds of "facts" can mutate creatively.) I'd really like > to know what we've actually established about the various locations of > Zeor, so I can make a valliant stab at consistency. Fort Freedom is on the map in the paperback of _Zelerod's Doom_. In the middle of the Great Plains, I think. Vaguely in the Nebraska area, I think. > 6) I've already thrown out most of what I was using as an outline when > I discovered I needed a really good name for a Villain who's a > Partially Endowed Farris Channel gone junct. That character is still > the pivotal influence in this novel -- but themes and conflicts have > shifted around in my mind a lot. This is the fun part of writing -- > where nothing is fixed, and you can have a dozen versions of the story > running through your mind at once. Talk about a three-ring circus! > So NAME ME THAT VILLAIN. Sorry, I'm no good at all on names. I'm working from memory here, so anyone who remebers different, please say so. -- "We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech," - David Brin Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:14:42 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: aussie slang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hmm, strange. I understood every word of that. John, I'm not really surprised that you did. It seems obvious to me that if you look at the meaning behind the words and not at the words themselves that it's clear. Unfortunately, inflection doesn't come across in email or other text communications and I think that is how misunderstandings often occur. With patience and a willingness to agree that "innocent until proven guilty" be the given, missunderstandings due to differences in lingo will not happen. Thank you for your comments. Peace be with us all! Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:39:16 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kierestelli Aradia Morgan Subject: Greetings and Felicitations! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII And thanks to Don Jaramillo who talked me into it, and to Leigh Kimmel who's been trying to get me to join for a while now. Atashi wa baka datta! (I've been an idiot!) I'd have joined ages ago if I knew y'all were all here, and I should have known, but I was an idiot! I probably know most of you. I'm surprised how many names I recognize from the posts I've gotten so far. /waves hand. Hi Jacqueline! Miss you I do -- they coulda got me on here long ago if I knew you were a regular poster! Don't forget, you're gonna be my daughter in the next go-round; we promised! Hi Leigh! Nicki and Armand and Liuterin and Marcus and Her Lordship say hi too! (I'm in an original-fic, epistolary format APA with Leigh -- those are 2 sets of my charas!) Hi Karen -- remember me from The House Meeting? (I haven't been to Darkover since 1989 but I did go a lot in the 80's when I lived in WV and KY. Now I'm a California girl and I may be going to Japan VERY soon. Probably not to live, but you never know. I will come back to Darkover Real Soon Now...I miss it.) Who else am I saying hi to for the first time in ages? Kiri Aradia Morgan (or you can spell it Kyri, like we used to when I was in college...I don't care) also or formerly known as: Kyri Westfall, Kyri Sikorski, Kiri Ho Eglantine Toussaint Gwenith-Kierestelli Morgan Kierestelli n'ha Sionnavara Kierestelli Alanna Callista Syrtis d'Ardais Arianwen de Kernoel Mistress Tiamat Draconis, Esprit & The Yellow Peril of Vanguard Dossier Tiamat, the (not so) Great and Powerful Dragon Lady (not a Pern fan, sorry) and some other, less printable things.... ****************************************************************************** Kierestelli Aradia Morgan tiamat@xxxxxx.com "She lost her dream playing at love; she forgot that she had to let her mind shine all the time. Little by little, she is learning to understand the meaning of things they never taught her in school." -- OZAKI Yutaka, 1965-1992 *>i<* "If you really want to enjoy life, you must work quietly and humbly and realize your delusions of grandeur." -- Mark Helprin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:15:20 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Greetings and Felicitations! In-Reply-To: from "Kierestelli Aradia Morgan" at Aug 26, 98 02:39:16 pm Content-Type: text > I'd have joined ages ago if I knew y'all were all here, and I should have > known, but I was an idiot! Welcome to the list! > (I haven't been to Darkover since 1989 but I did go a lot in the 80's when > I lived in WV and KY. Now I'm a California girl and I may be going to > Japan VERY soon. Probably not to live, but you never know. I will come > back to Darkover Real Soon Now...I miss it.) Well ... some of us show up at LosCon in LA over Thanksgiving weekend, and the North American SF Convention (a.k.a. "Worldcon for the years when Worldcon goes overseas") is in Anaheim next year. Are you northern or southern California? Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:16:15 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Greetings and Felicitations! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Welcome Kiri. Hope you'll have fun with us. A group of us is planning to make the Darkover trek this year (I've also missed it a lot like you have). Hopefully you'll be active with us in Sime~Gen. Keep in touch. Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:59:25 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kierestelli Aradia Morgan Subject: Re: Greetings and Felicitations! In-Reply-To: <199808262215.PAA26634@xxxxxx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > I'd have joined ages ago if I knew y'all were all here, and I should have > > known, but I was an idiot! > > Welcome to the list! > Thanks! > > (I haven't been to Darkover since 1989 but I did go a lot in the 80's when > > I lived in WV and KY. Now I'm a California girl and I may be going to > > Japan VERY soon. Probably not to live, but you never know. I will come > > back to Darkover Real Soon Now...I miss it.) > > Well ... some of us show up at LosCon in LA over Thanksgiving weekend, > and the North American SF Convention (a.k.a. "Worldcon for the years > when Worldcon goes overseas") is in Anaheim next year. Are you > northern or southern California? > > Northern CA...San Francisco...but I may go to Nasfic. I wasn't planning on it, but they canned the General Manager at the Anaheim Hilton who was so nasty to us (and cost my club so much money) at Anime Expo 98. So I'm slowly being cured of my Anaheim allergy. And I do want to go to Nasfic! L8r, Kiri ****************************************************************************** Kierestelli Aradia Morgan tiamat@xxxxxx.com "She lost her dream playing at love; she forgot that she had to let her mind shine all the time. Little by little, she is learning to understand the meaning of things they never taught her in school." -- OZAKI Yutaka, 1965-1992 *>i<* "If you really want to enjoy life, you must work quietly and humbly and realize your delusions of grandeur." -- Mark Helprin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:09:17 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Subject: Re: Greetings and Felicitations! In-Reply-To: <199808262215.PAA26634@xxxxxx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Well ... some of us show up at LosCon in LA over Thanksgiving weekend, >and the North American SF Convention (a.k.a. "Worldcon for the years >when Worldcon goes overseas") is in Anaheim next year. Are you >northern or southern California? I'm in Southern California. Where are you? Stilling not knowing whether I'll be at Darkover or LosCon this year. Cherri aka Veraik ambrov Liorie Controller, Bender Cove Sime Center PS. If you would like to roleplay SimeGen, join us on: UnderNet at #simegen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:50:41 -0700 Reply-To: Donald Jaramillo Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Donald Jaramillo Subject: Re: Greetings and Felicitations! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Kierestelli Aradia Morgan To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 2:59 PM Subject: Greetings and Felicitations! >And thanks to Don Jaramillo who talked me into it, and to Leigh Kimmel >who's been trying to get me to join for a while now. Atashi wa baka >datta! (I've been an idiot!) Kiri!!! Glad to see you made it!!! > >I'd have joined ages ago if I knew y'all were all here, and I should have >known, but I was an idiot! Well, it's a good thing we were both at the BBQ, eh? :-) Follow Your Bliss!! Don ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org ICQ: 10762090 (Work) ICQ: 2869199 (Home) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:30:53 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Greetings and Felicitations! In-Reply-To: from "Kierestelli Aradia Morgan" at Aug 26, 98 03:59:25 pm Content-Type: text > On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > Well ... some of us show up at LosCon in LA over Thanksgiving weekend, > > and the North American SF Convention (a.k.a. "Worldcon for the years > > when Worldcon goes overseas") is in Anaheim next year. Are you > > northern or southern California? > > > > > Northern CA...San Francisco...but I may go to Nasfic. I wasn't planning > on it, but they canned the General Manager at the Anaheim Hilton who was > so nasty to us (and cost my club so much money) at Anime Expo 98. So I'm > slowly being cured of my Anaheim allergy. And I do want to go to Nasfic! I think they're using the Marriot, which worked out pretty well for the 1996 Worldcon (in my experience anyway.) Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:41:44 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: M C Arens Subject: Star Trek / Split infinitives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We've had discussions on this before: 'Boldly Go' Approved By Oxford The classic Star Trek phrase "to boldly go where no man has gone before" is grammatically correct despite being a split infinitive, at least according to the New Oxford Dictionary of English. Reuters reports the latest edition of the dictionary, released last week by the Oxford University Press, gives "to boldly go" the okay, stating that "in standard English the principle of allowing split infinitives is broadly accepted as both normal and useful." The New Oxford Dictionary of English was written from scratch by 30 editors who spent six years on the project, creating "the first real dictionary of English as a world language." from: http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/news.html Ob. S~G: Would the paranoid Tecton allow a rensime on a ship full of Gens without a channel? Can rensimes take transfer from a battery? I should think it would be easier for them than for a channel "taste"-wise, although for emergency use only. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:36:51 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: CD Roms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My very humble apologies...really was making a joike. Wendy Fisher fishydu@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:19:11 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 25 Aug 1998 to 26 Aug 1998 In-Reply-To: <199808270500.AAA40714@xxxxxx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Karen - My roommate got a copy of FC from the Braille Instutute in LA this year and "read" it. This was a cassette read-aloud copy. I've asked him to check on which-all books are available and he said he will. (I'll pbobably have to remind him a few times, tho. He's not online now.) Years ago, he got Rensime for me to read that way (he borrowed books for me a lot back when I was cross-stitching for hours a week and listening to books as I did so.) Jacqueline - Thank you for the life expectancy ranges! That's helpful! I have a question: was Klyd's grandfather endowed and we just didn't know it? (I respect your right to decline to answer. But if you DO want to answer, I'm curious.) I know you established that he was 'very' old, but I don't remember if you said how old in numbers. BTW, I've been enjoying reading through your Aspectarian articles. A lot of them (duh!) dovetail with a lot of things I've been thinking about this summer. Like personal responsibility and not imposing my will. (I expect if I read through them a year from now, I'll get whole new things that at this point go over my head... so I'm planning to!) I decided awhile back that there seem to be 3 levels of information/knowledge. There's "Huh?" and "HUH!" and "Duh!" The first, you're just not ready for yet (or, as you pointed out, so alien that it gets split off before it ever goes in). The 2nd is novel and "meaningful" - where you're living. The third is assimilated enough that you've virtually forgotten that it was ever new. A lot of what you''ve got in there is at teh Huh! stage. Kerry and Donnell - I hope you come through just fine, you and your loved ones. Kiri Welcome! I'm glad you came to join us. I don't recognise your name, but I look forward to getting to knowyou. If you're coming through Bakersfield any time, drop me an email first if you want to stop off for a rest. (Why in the world you'd want to come through here is beyond me, but the welcome mat's out.) Jaye orchestra@xxxxxx.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:49:35 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: OT: Friendship MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a little something that a good friend forwarded to me : ***The Greatest Pain in Life*** ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The greatest pain in life is not to die, but to be ignored. To lose the person you love so much to another, who doesn't care at all. To have someone you care so about so much throw a party... and not tell you about it. When your favorite person on earth neglects to invite you to his graduation. To have people think that you don't care. The greatest pain in life, is not to die, but to be forgotten. To be left in the dust after another's great achievement. To never get a call from a friend, just saying "hi". When you show someone your innermost thoughts and they laugh in your face. For friends to always be too busy to console you when you need someone to lift your spirits. When it seems like the only person who cares about you, is you. Life is full of pain, but does it ever get better? Will people ever care about each other, and make time for those who are in need? Each of us has a part to play in this great show we call life. Each of us has a duty to mankind to tell our friends we love them. If you do not care about your friends you will not be pusinshed. You will simply be ignored... forgotten... as you have done to others. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *This poem was written by a young girl who committed suicide three years ago. Perhaps if the people surrounding her had shown a little more love, and had paid more attention to her, her death could have been prevented. Remember that when going through life, you can't judge a sad, lonely, or suicidal person by their facial expression. You need to get to know each person you come in contact with, cherish your friendship with them, and show them that you care.* Please forward to everyone you care about. -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:41:05 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Webring Site #25 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks to a lot of work on the part of Torun Almer and others, there is another Webring site open. My householding "Nelaryn" (Named by Jacqueline some time ago) is up and open for visitors. The page still needs me to make a Householding History for it....the basics are related to the actual Clan MacLeod of Scotland. I also have to add a link and mention to "A Companion in Zeor" and I want to do another link related to horseback riding therapy, which is important to me. Jacqueline said on "Instant Message" the other day: AmbrovZeor: -- you've got the copyright stuff up, and I dub thee "official" -- I made the prototype for this site myself. So come visit: http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/traveller/51/ If those of you who have helped me with the site have not received proper credit, please let me know, and I'll have adjustments made. Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:44:11 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Hurricane Bonnie Comments: To: wlong72@xxxxxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ISome of you will be getting this as a duplicate message, since Kerry sent it to you personally......Karen Litman << Quick message to let everyone know I'm OK so far. Lost power for a long time and will only be online long enough to post this, since power here is iffy and I want to leave the computer unplugged. Donell and Connie are also OK, staying with a friend. Unless we have late flooding due to all the rain, the worst is over. Kerry >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:54:28 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cynthia Tenen Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Count me in with people who actually *prefer* trade paperbacks of books that I really like. The extra care that usually goes into their production -- page layout, quality of paper, and particularly *quality of the binding* -- really make a difference to me in books that I want to keep. (I really *like* it when pages don't fall out of my book after a year, when binding doesn't crack for 5 or even 10 years, and *some* of the trade pbks I've bought lately have a really nice, flexible stock used for the cover that lays open much, much better than the ordinary book -- for those of us who like to read over lunch, and don't have a hand free to keep the book open.) Of course, with the single exception of my science fiction books, just about every book I read is a trade paperback -- the subjects I'm interested in professionally don't get published via the mass market. So $15 and up is what I'm accustomed to paying for books I want to buy (actually, $15 is a real bargain for these books). BTW, someone commented that mass market is the only way to get new readers (I'm probably exaggerating that). I disagree. I much prefer to experiment with a new series if I've got a nice trade paper edition in my hand -- for one thing, it means to me (rightly or wrongly) that someone cared enough to put out a nice edition of the book. For another, trades often have really useful information about the book's contents printed on the cover, while mass market books almost never do. The key is DISTRIBUTION. To appreciate the attractive, accurate cover art, the quick-review summary of the series background and this particular book's plot and place in that series, and information about the authors' other works (and sometimes one-line reviews of the book by other "names" in the field) that are usually printed on the cover of trade paperbacks, *I have to be able to pick up the book and examine it in the store.* SO the question is, how will these quality trade paper editions of Sime~Gen be distributed? Will they go to s-f specialty stores and independents -- places where browsing gets done? Does the publisher have a website where a page containing cover art, summary of contents, authors' info, reviews, and ordering information will be posted? (That at least gets the people who do their browsing electronically these days, like me.) Just my $0.02. Cynthia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:10:05 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion Cynthia writes: > > Count me in with people who actually *prefer* trade paperbacks of books > that I really like. The extra care that usually goes into their production > -- page layout, quality of paper, and particularly *quality of the binding* > -- really make a difference to me in books that I want to keep. (I really > *like* it when pages don't fall out of my book after a year, when binding > doesn't crack for 5 or even 10 years, and *some* of the trade pbks I've > bought lately have a really nice, flexible stock used for the cover that > lays open much, much better than the ordinary book -- for those of us who > like to read over lunch, and don't have a hand free to keep the book open.) > What would be really nice is if trade paperbacks could be done with a process called OTAbinding (aka "lay-flat" binding) where the book is designed to be able to open and lay flat. It's a little more expensive and takes a bit longer (because not every printer can handle it and therefore has to send the books out to be bound) but IMO it's well worth it. We use it in our technical documentation. > > For another, trades often have really > useful information about the book's contents printed on the cover, while > mass market books almost never do. I've noticed an annoying trend in mass market paperbacks (using an admittedly skewed sample of books you find in supermarket checkstand aisles). The worst example of it is Danielle Steel's books, where instead of a blurb on the back describing what the book's about, you get a picture of her and the words, "Everybody reads Danielle Steel!" I'm not sure what they want me to take from this. Possibly: "Gee! I don't read Danielle Steel! Since *everybody* does, I guess I'd better buy this book and join the herd! Moo!" Or else the book doesn't have enough substance to warrant a blurb about the subject. I'm not sure which. But a book with a back-cover blurb like that will never get read by *me*, that's for sure! Sigh...I'm sure the S~G books will have *much* better back covers. :) --Robyn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:03:21 -0700 Reply-To: Donald Jaramillo Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Donald Jaramillo Subject: Re: Greetings and Felicitations! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Tony Zbaraschuk To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Greetings and Felicitations! >> > >> Northern CA...San Francisco...but I may go to Nasfic. I wasn't planning >> on it, but they canned the General Manager at the Anaheim Hilton who was >> so nasty to us (and cost my club so much money) at Anime Expo 98. So I'm >> slowly being cured of my Anaheim allergy. And I do want to go to Nasfic! > >I think they're using the Marriot, which worked out pretty well for >the 1996 Worldcon (in my experience anyway.) > Yes, when I came back from Anime Expo, I was worried that it was also going to be at the Hilton, but was overjoyed to find that it was going to be at the _Marriot_. This was before I received news that the Hilton had let the General Manager and head of Security go. If for no other reason, I'm planning on going so that I can meet up with even more of the S~G community, especially the JL's! :-) Illigitimi non Carborundum! Don ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org djaramillo@xxxxxx.com roburddraig@xxxxxx.com ICQ: 10762090 (Work) ICQ: 2869199 (Home) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:29:33 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: FWD: Bones' Dream: Trekkers Find Fountain of Youth --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- ****THIS JUST IN FROM E! ONLINE NEWS**** ******************************************************** Bones' Dream: Trekkers Find Fountain of Youth by E! Online News Staff Apr 14 1998 2:35PM http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0%2C1%2C2848%2C00%2Ehtml Bones retired too soon. Filming is under way for the ninth Star Trek big-screen outing. And this time the Enterprise crew finds the fountain of youth. Life being a singularly unfair thing, it's Captain Picard and the relatively frisky Next Generationers who get the assignment. Kirk, McCoy and the aptly named Bones-average age 70.6--are sitting this one out. Star Trek IX, with cast member Jonathan Frakes doubling as director, began production March 31, Paramount Pictures confirmed Monday. A November release is planned. All the Next Generation regulars are on board: Patrick Stewart (Picard); Frakes (Commander Riker); LeVar Burton (Lieutenant Commander La Forge); Michael Dorn (Worf); Gates McFadden (Dr. Crusher); Marina Sirtis (Deanna Troi); and Brent Spiner (Data). The "guest" cast includes: Oscar-winner F. Murray Abraham and Tony-winner Donna Murphy (Passion). The movie finds Picard pitted against his Federation bosses when an alien world's idyllic fountain of youth is threatened, the studio says. Sounds serious, but the film is invariably described on Trek fan Websites as playing more like Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (the "cute, funny" Trek movie-the one about the whales). Riker and his psychic friend, Deanna Troi, reportedly get all kissy-face. Even the proper, anti-Kirk (aka Picard) is said to snag a space-bound snuggle bunny on the voyage-the character played by Donna Murphy. "I hope that when people look back at Star Trek IX, they'll say, 'Oh, yes. That was the sexy, funny one,'" Stewart has said. So far, none of the rumored subtitles for the flick-Millennium, Prime Directive, Transcendence, included-reflect this get-loose attitude. (Maybe that's why they don't have a title yet.) Trek IX marks Frakes' second stint as feature-film director. (The first was 1996's Star Trek: First Contact.) Patrick Stewart is stepping behind-the-scenes on this project, too. In addition to the Picard thing, he'll play associate producer. (That perk and a reputed $9.5 million payday got him to reenlist.) Trek IX is the Next Generation crew's third big-screen outing. Their aging Enterprise elders-from the Captain Kirk years-last appeared en masse in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country in 1991. (William Shatner and a few others also appeared in 1994's baton-passing film, Star Trek Generations.) ******************************************************** Click into E! Online-we're Entertainment's Home Page (http://www.eonline.com) --------- End forwarded message ---------- _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:32:27 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: FWD: More Star Trek news. --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- Actually there is a final title for Star Trek IX --- it is "Star Trek-Insurrection" More Trek news: There is a new Dax introduced at the end of the first episode of DS9 this season. This season will be the last for DS9. There is no planned DS9 movie at this point in time (however, that could change at the drop of Paramount's wallet. This season on ST-Voyager we will see the crew adopt a "since we're out here anyway, let's kick ass" attitude. >From one of Voyager's producers--they will return to Federation space well before the end of their seventh season. Now for the rumor part: The entire seventh season will be in the Alpha Quadrant. 7of9 gets new clothes! (but, guys, not to worry-she'll still wear her silver outfit when in the ship's aerobics room.) =20 --------- End forwarded message ---------- _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:22:25 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Captain Button Subject: Vampire bibliography on the web. In-Reply-To: <359823D3.646B44C4@xxxxxx..au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Someone has a Vampire bibliography up on the web, though I'm not too impressed.... http://www.bibliography.com/vamp/ -- "We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech," - David Brin Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:18:28 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Re: Greetings and Felicitations! Kierestelli Aradia Morgan wrote: >And thanks to Don Jaramillo who talked me into it, and to Leigh Kimmel >who's been trying to get me to join for a while now. Atashi wa baka >datta! (I've been an idiot!) Welcome. >(I haven't been to Darkover since 1989 but I did go a lot in the 80's when >I lived in WV and KY. Now I'm a California girl and I may be going to >Japan VERY soon. Probably not to live, but you never know. I will >come back to Darkover Real Soon Now...I miss it.) I've never made it to Darkover myself. Maybe someday. Leigh and I are planning to go to Nasfic next year. Maybe we'll run into you then. Larry Ulrey ulrey@xxxxxx.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:06:42 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: FWD: Bones' Dream: Trekkers Find Fountain of Youth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you VERY much Larry, for that update on star Trek (the ONLY TV I watch. :) ) -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:35:34 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Lost Novel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit OK Folks, I'm probably off topic, but I need help anyway. I recall a paperback, perhaps a year before UZF was published where an individual was escaping some threat (that could have been changeover or establishment). . They travelled from place to place looking for sanctuary marked by a starred cross (I'm not sure that it was "the" starred cross) ..anyway it "felt" like sime/gen and predated it without ever defining the change that was going to happen which was causing them to flee. It's not on JLs list (or, at least I don't recognize it) and I can no longer find it in my library. But if anyone remembered it, I'd check my garage (when the earthquake hit in '94 one whole room of books got boxed alpha and put in the garage). Any thoughts? Wendy Fisher fishydu@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:51:32 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Lost Novel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Wendy Fisher wrote: OK Folks, I'm probably off topic, but I need help anyway. I recall a paperback, perhaps a year before UZF was published where an individual was escaping some threat (that could have been changeover or establishment). . They travelled from place to place looking for sanctuary marked by a starred cross (I'm not sure that it was "the" starred cross) ..anyway it "felt" like sime/gen and predated it without ever defining the change that was going to happen which was causing them to flee. It's not on JLs list (or, at least I don't recognize it) and I can no longer find it in my library. >> Sounds like one of the scenes in "House of Zeor" which was published prior to "Unto Zeor Forever." Klyd recognizes a young person in one of the Starred Cross shelters, and tells Hugh what to say to this individual to get the recently established gen to trust them. I may be wrong, but I don't think so ----- Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:21:07 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Dreaming about books (was Re: Reprint Discussion) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline Lichtenberg wrote: > > The CD-Rom that will sell like crazy will be the one that that lasts forever, is indestructible, (you can leave it on the back seat > of your car in Las Vegas at noon during August and it still works after the cats play with it) can be read any number of times, and > doesn't require any machinery besides itself to read. > > Such as -- the little hologram projector things they showed on ST. Self-contained, and it always works. > > We are a long, long, long way from developing a gizmo like that. So while I'm wishing, I'm going to wish for it to come "empty" and > you get to fill it with whatever fiction you want to keep -- and then if you decide to, you can empty it and fill it up with > different words that you'd prefer to keep. Re-writable self-contained, and take very little space but hold terabytes of data. And the size of a paperback book? We'll get it as soon as the screen technology becomes commercially feasible. All the rest already IS commercially feasible, it's just the screen. And there's about eight options at various stages of feasibility. And it comes empty & the 'fillers' are about the size of business cards or those 'magstripe' train tickets. (terabytes of data - well, not yet. But a business card folder holding your library? That sound ok?) Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:46:27 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: CD Roms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robyn King-Nitschke wrote: > > Jean writes: > > Jean, I assure you, that was all I ever intended to > do. > > Just curious, though--I'm pretty much up on copyright issues, > but what is the law regarding stuff that's posted to the > Web? I know that the copyright holders still legally own > the work, and that it's illegal for anyone else to make a > profit from it, but if it's posted on the Web for all to > see/read/grab with the blessing of the copyright holders, > then would it be illegal to make a CD and give it to a friend? > > I don't intend to do this--truth is, I'll probably end > up being too lazy to make one for myself!--but I was curious. > > Thanks, > --Robyn Unless the WEB copy specifically granted permission for that action, I believe (I'm not a copyright lawyer!) that it /is/ illegal - because you're duplicating the item AND modifying the medium in which it is presented. Now, if you did it once (or if you did it to make a copy which could run on a 'speaker' unit for a blind friend, or to enlarge the font for a visually impaired friend or suchlike), it's usually deliberately not-seen. It's still ILLEGAL, but it's one of the situations which /I/ (being not really up on what sort of thing pisses off a publisher!) would imagine to be 'ok'. Doing it for a bunch of visually impaired friends .. starts to risk the author's ability to sell copyright. Doing it for a bunch of friends who can read everything just fine and could walk into a local library and read it from their webscreens /also/ starts to risk the author's ability to sell copyright. Does this clarify? Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:22:15 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-23 22:37:54 EDT, you write: << Unfortunately, since _any_ small press, not just the only one interested in reprinting the S~G novels, can _only_ afford limited editions with value added to make them worth the price, that is the only kind of edition there is going to be unless there is some sudden, completely unexpected demand for tens of thousands of copies. And now I have probably only confused matters even more by trying to explain further. Jean >> No, it's getting clearer with this discussion, I read in the independent special interest press and the going price for a new regular length novel in the trade paperback (sturdy durable regular paper and usually modest cover art) is $9-$12. If the run is to be only 500 or so I'm *quite* willing to pay that for a straight reprint. The font and typeface can quite nice in these volumes (think Charles DeLint's "Little/Big" or Ende's beautifully published 1st edition "Neverending Story") ... the big thing is they won't deterioate/fox/discolor as fast so long as fairly acid free paper is used. The high rag content paper of the 1700s is still white today, but the 1910 pulp paper books are literally crumbling. Some circa 1960 paperbacks are okay ... but much science fiction was printed on pulp and is turning to powder .... won't be readable in another 30 years. My first copy of "The Stars My Destination" and some early Vance are approaching this state .... so it *does* happen within our reading lifetimes ..... But then, I'm a profligate reader and re-reader and spend the equivalent of 1/3 of my monthly food budget on books. Just my two cents worth. PMNewcomb "Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:22:54 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: PM Newcomb Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion, "limited" editions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-24 12:37:00 EDT, you write: << The "limited" editions at "collector" prices that I don't want to see (unless it's a small print run in ADDITION to the "real" one, for the benefit of collectors) are books constructed with expensive paper, illustrations, and bindings specifically for the collector market, >> I buy some of these expensive books because of the exquisite workmanship that makes them both art and book. They should *never* be the sole source of material! Ever! Don't construe my wish for beautiful versions as a vote for them as the first or only reprints!! (I just want my great grandchild to pick up a pristine "First Channel" and say , "What's this? Looks interesting!" .... and the S-G universe continues!" PMN : ) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:22:58 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > Jean wrote: > > No time today to hunt for this--I'm just checking e-mail over supper before > > diving back into the novel synopsis--but folks who have all the zines & > > stuff at your fingertips--isn't this the first time Jacqueline has said > > renSimes can astrogate? Wasn't there an assumption that the Endowment was > > necessary? > > And are channels and Companions the only ones with the Endowment? > > Tony Z Isn't the protagonist in Rensime Endowed? Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 02:33:13 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Karen - I like your web page! :) Thanks for the news that it was up and the URL on it! Does anyone have the info on Nasfic - how much the deposit is, what the current lock-in price is, whom to send $$ to - for next year? I seem to have mislaid it. E and I have decided we MUST go since Jacqueline and Jean both plan to be there. If someone has it, please email me. We've decided if we must eat plain rice a la famine victims for a week or so, we're willing to do it in order to get the deposits in in September. (Tho we hope it won't come to that.) Jaye orchestra@xxxxxx.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 02:42:40 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Subject: NLS books available from Braille in LA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I forgot... here's the list that my roommate and I got from Braille Instistute Library in LA today of Jean and Jacqueline's books they have available: Jacqueline: (all titles are cassette except br = braille, and rd = record) Dreamspy House of Zeor Mahogany Trinrose Rensime Star Trek Lives Those of my Blood Unto Zeor Forever House of Zeor (br) Jean Channel's Destiny Dragon Lord of the Savage Empire First Channel IDIC Epidemic Metamorphosis Savage Empire Vulcan Academy Murders IDIC Epidemic (rd) Metamorphosis (br) Vulcan Academy Murders (br) So the books aren't badly represented for people in southern California and Arizona. And this is current. He called them today. (Well, yesterday, since it's after midnight, now.) :) Jaye orchestra@xxxxxx.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:39:34 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Larry P Ulrey Jaye wrote: >Does anyone have the info on Nasfic - how much the deposit is, what >the current lock-in price is, whom to send $$ to - for next year? I seem >to have mislaid it. E and I have decided we MUST go since Jacqueline and >Jean both plan to be there. If someone has it, please email me. If you didn't vote for Nasfic at Lonestarcon and didn't pre-support, it's $85. If you pre-supported, but didn't vote; it's $75. If you voted and didn't presupport, it's $65. If you voted and presupported, it's $55. Make checks payable to "Conucopia" and mail to: Conucopia C/O S.C.I.F.I, Inc. P.O. Box 8442 Van Nuys, CA 91409 Their website is at http://www.99.nasfic.org/ Hope this helps. Larry Ulrey ulrey@xxxxxx.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:34:21 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kandace Klumper Subject: Lost Novel? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could it be Logan's Run? Wendy Fisher wrote: OK Folks, I'm probably off topic, but I need help anyway. I recall a paperback, perhaps a year before UZF was published where an individual was escaping some threat (that could have been changeover or establishment). . They travelled from place to place looking for sanctuary marked by a starr= ed cross (I'm not sure that it was "the" starred cross) ..anyway it "felt" li= ke sime/gen and predated it without ever defining the change that was going t= o happen which was causing them to flee. It's not on JLs list (or, at leas= t I don't recognize it) and I can no longer find it in my library. >> Sounds like one of the scenes in "House of Zeor" which was published prior= to "Unto Zeor Forever." Klyd recognizes a young person in one of the Starred Cross shelters, and tells Hugh what to say to this individual to get the recently established gen to trust them. I may be wrong, but I don't think= so ----- Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:26:55 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD In-Reply-To: <35E65AD2.8A272F32@xxxxxx..au> from "Jenn V." at Aug 28, 98 05:22:58 pm Content-Type: text > Tony Zbaraschuk wrote: > > And are channels and Companions the only ones with the Endowment? Jenn V.: > Isn't the protagonist in Rensime Endowed? I don't think Laneff's Endowed, but it's been so long since I read Rensime that I can't be sure. Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:40:01 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Captain Obvious In-Reply-To: <199808281426.HAA02723@xxxxxx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Could someone please give me the address and command to remove myself from the list? Thanks. Russ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:06:06 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: Lost Novel? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kandace wrote: Wendy Fisher wrote: OK Folks, I'm probably off topic, but I need help anyway. I recall a paperback, perhaps a year before UZF was published where an individual was escaping some threat (that could have been changeover or establishment). . They travelled from place to place looking for sanctuary marked by a starred cross (I'm not sure that it was "the" starred cross) ..anyway it "felt" like sime/gen and predated it without ever defining the change that was going to happen which was causing them to flee. It's not on JLs list (or, at least I don't recognize it) and I can no longer find it in my library. >> Karen Litman identified this as a part of HOUSE OF ZEOR. And it is, in a way -- but I think maybe this story you recall was something you DREAMED as a result of reading HoZ. I have one of those scenes from Katherine Kurtz's Deryni novels -- I was absolutely certain that scene was in one of the first 9 books in that series and I re-read them all carefully looking for that scene. It was SO VIVID in my mind -- not there though. Not. So when you reread HoZ, let me know if the scene you recall turns up. JL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:08:13 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: NLS books available from Braille in LA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jaye wrote about a long list of books by Jean and me that are available on the tape-system in LA: JL here -- wow, thank you Jaye. I had thought these no longer available. Thank you for posting this. JL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:55:15 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Kerry & Donell: Hurricane Bonnie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is the latest from Kerry. Fortunately the storm has since left them. << Subj: Re: Hurricane Bonnie Date: 98-08-28 07:21:42 EDT > KLitman323 wrote: > Bruce and I were worried about you guys. Glad to know you're all OK. > Hopefully you won't have much damage, and everything will be well. I'm fine. No serious flooding or wind damage. Thanks for your concern. Kerry >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:16:19 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kierestelli Aradia Morgan Subject: Re: Lost Novel? Comments: To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg In-Reply-To: <002c01bdd295$63056560$297a5ed1@xxxxxx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Jacqueline Lichtenberg wrote: > Kandace wrote: > > Wendy Fisher wrote: > OK Folks, I'm probably off topic, but I need help anyway. I recall a > paperback, perhaps a year before UZF was published where an individual was > escaping some threat (that could have been changeover or establishment). . > They travelled from place to place looking for sanctuary marked by a starred > cross (I'm not sure that it was "the" starred cross) ..anyway it "felt" like > sime/gen and predated it without ever defining the change that was going to > happen which was causing them to flee. It's not on JLs list (or, at least I > don't recognize it) and I can no longer find it in my library. >> > > > Karen Litman identified this as a part of HOUSE OF ZEOR. And it is, in > a way -- but I think maybe this story you recall was something you > DREAMED as a result of reading HoZ. > > I have one of those scenes from Katherine Kurtz's Deryni novels -- I was absolutely certain that scene was in one of the first 9 > books in that series and I re-read them all carefully looking for that scene. It was SO VIVID in my mind -- not there though. Not. > > So when you reread HoZ, let me know if the scene you recall turns up. Jacqueline, I'm sure I've read that book too...but I am fairly certain it is not S~G. Unfortunately, I cannot recall what it was. Confusedly, Kiri ****************************************************************************** > Kierestelli Aradia Morgan tiamat@xxxxxx.com "She lost her dream playing at love; she forgot that she had to let her mind shine all the time. Little by little, she is learning to understand the meaning of things they never taught her in school." -- OZAKI Yutaka, 1965-1992 *>i<* "If you really want to enjoy life, you must work quietly and humbly and realize your delusions of grandeur." -- Mark Helprin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:39:46 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: BACK: PSO & RTD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FOLKS: I just sent a quick test-post through simegen-l@xxxxxx.com a few hours ago and haven't gotten it back yet, so I assume it went through and Jenn does have the Listserv software repaired (WOW -- she walks in the door after such a trip, makes sure the house is still there, then sits down and fixes a problem just like that -- incredible woman.) Here's a quick answer about Laneff: >Jenn V.: >> Isn't the protagonist in Rensime Endowed? > >I don't think Laneff's Endowed, but it's been so long since I read >Rensime that I can't be sure. > > >Tony Z JL here -- I left that somewhat ambiguous I think. Actually, you can have renSimes who have various sorts of ESP developed, but they won't technically be "Endowed" in the same sense that a Channel would be. "Endowed" is a concept that sort of includes the secondary selyn system. Without that secondary system, you still get ESP but it works differently and does different things in different ways. The end result can appear very similar -- but the training that will teach a Channel to control these manifestations won't do a renSime any good at all. (unless of course you want a renSime driven insane by sheer frustration!) But no segment of humanity will ever have a lock on ESP -- if it exists at all, it's pretty equally distributed among us. Of course -- maybe it's all just a figment of our imaginations -- in which case, imagination is also equally (if sparsely) distributed among us. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:00:03 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Re: Vampire bibliography on the web. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Capt. Button noted: >Someone has a Vampire bibliography up on the web, though I'm not >too impressed.... > >http://www.bibliography.com/vamp/ > >-- I looked and they don't have mine -- so I dropped an email naming two novels and short stories that are vampire stories, and pointed her to http://www.simegen.com/bios for my bibliography. Cheryl is working on compiling bio-biblio data page for us -- she's working on the professional writers at the moment -- so if there are any more writers on this List who want their bios linked to that page, drop a note to AleaFarris@xxxxxx.com Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts.html for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:19:52 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Power Outage Comments: To: cormo@xxxxxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In the e-mail I just downloaded, there is a note from the MSU maintenance staff warning that there will be a power outage on campus from 7:00am tomorrow to 7:00am Sunday. Most of the classroom and administrative buildings are named (the dorms, student union, and library will have power). It does _not_ state whether the outage will affect e-mail or Internet service, and I do not know in which buildings the mainframe and modems are housed. My guess would be that they would _not_ close down the mainframe...but then one never knows. So if I'm on-line tomorrow, it means I was able to dial in. If not, I'll be back on Sunday. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:36:13 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Captain Obvious wrote: > > Could someone please give me the address and command to remove myself > from the list? > > Thanks. > > Russ You'll need to mail both listserv@xxxxxx.edu and listserv@xxxxxx.com (because of the list migration we're about to undergo - I've already taken the file from siu) The command is 'unsubscribe simegen-l' Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:02:21 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: Lost Novel? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, everyone, for racking your brains for me. And, thanks Kiri, for re- establihing my sanity...for a while there I thought I had lost it. I have this absolutely visual remembrance of the chapter headings...some with a 'starred cross', some different. At any rate, I've strongarmed my kids into getting my books out of the garage and re-shelving them for me...about time too. ..although they've begged off until the weather is cooler (probably in November). At any rate, l'll let you all know about the mystery novel when I find it. Thanks again. Wendy Fisher fishydu@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:17:21 -1000 Reply-To: Torun@xxxxxx.net Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: David and/or Torun Almer Organization: Starfire Retreat Bed and Breakfast, Kailua-Kona, HI Subject: Stray Cats Comments: To: Boots@xxxxxx.Net, kaleena@xxxxxx.net, dragons@xxxxxx.net, seawolfe@xxxxxx.org, dianne@xxxxxx.net, dougnwin@xxxxxx.net, Edbriles@xxxxxx.com, gsturdy@xxxxxx.com, gtandcon@xxxxxx.com, glevande@xxxxxx.blm.gov, schaffer@xxxxxx.edu, hgkemnitz@xxxxxx.edu, gjandsn@xxxxxx.com, joy@xxxxxx.online.com, kitty@xxxxxx.com, lkostal@xxxxxx.net, blairlib@xxxxxx.net, Lois@xxxxxx.com, lori@xxxxxx.com, holbot@xxxxxx.net, nitabnb@xxxxxx.net, nbird@xxxxxx.net, tahee@xxxxxx.com.au, rhioj@xxxxxx.net, rhaskins@xxxxxx.com, trvlnldy@xxxxxx.net, sheribell@xxxxxx.com, Svenflca@xxxxxx.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Friends, This was forwarded to me so thought I'd pass it on. > STRICT, UNBENDING RULES FOR DEALING WITH STRAY CATS > > 1. Stray cats will not be fed. > > 2. Stray cats will not be fed anything except dry cat food. > > 3. Stray cats will not be fed anything except dry cat food > moistened with a little milk. > > 4. Stray cats will not be fed anything except dry cat food > moistened with warm milk, yummy treats and leftover fish scraps. > > 5. Stray cats will not be encouraged to make this house their > permanent residence. > > 6. Stray cats will not be petted, played with or picked up and > cuddled unnecessarily. > > 7. Stray cats that are petted, played with, picked up and cuddled > will absolutely not be given a name. > > 8. Stray cats with or without a name will not be allowed inside the > house at any time. > > 9. Stray cats will not be allowed inside the house except at > certain times. > > 10. Stray cats will not be allowed inside the house except on days > ending in "y". > > 11. Stray cats allowed inside will not be permitted to jump up on > or sharpen their claws on the furniture. > > 12. Stray cats will not be permitted to jump up on, or sharpen > claws on the really good furniture. > > 13. Stray cats will be permitted on all furniture but must sharpen > claws on new $114.99 sisal-rope cat-scratching post with three > perches. > > 14. Stray cats will answer the call of nature outdoors in the sand. > > 15. Stray cats will answer the call of nature in the three-piece, > high-impact plastic tray filled with Fresh'n'Sweet kitty litter. > > 16. Stray cats will answer the call of nature in the hooded litter > pan with a three-panel privacy screen and plenty of head room. > > 17. Stray cats will sleep outside. > > 18. Stray cats will sleep in the garage. > > 19. Stray cats will sleep in the house. > > 20. Stray cats will sleep in a cardboard box lined with an old > blanket. > > 21. Stray cats will sleep in the special Kitty-Komfort-Bed with > non-allergenic lambs wool pillow. > > 22. Stray cats will not be allowed to sleep in our bed. > > 23. Stray cats will not be allowed to sleep in our bed, except at > the foot. > > 24. Stray cats will not be allowed to sleep in our bed under the > covers. > > 25. Stray cats will not be allowed to sleep in our bed under the > covers except at the foot. > > 26. Stray cats will not play on the desk. > > 27. Stray cats will not play on the desk near the computer. > > 28. Stray cats are forbidden to walk on the computer keyboard on > the desk when the human is asdfjjhhkl;ljfd.;oier' puyykmm4hbdm9lo9j > USING IT. Torun and Davidyu7h (LK walked on the keyboard!) http://home1.gte.net/torun/ Starfire Retreat Bed and Breakfast Kailua-Kona, HI ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:39:18 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 27 Aug 1998 to 28 Aug 1998 In-Reply-To: <199808290500.AAA22824@xxxxxx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I can add one bit of information on the copyright thing for blind people. ____IF____ my memory is correct (E's not sure but he forgets what he's heard at times) By law, books recorded for the blind, to be mailed out the way we check out library books on loan, have to be in a format that is NOT AVAILABLE FOR USE on machines in commercial use. On LP, that's met by the RPM being 8 rather than 33, 45, or 78, which is what commercial record players play. On cassette it's both that they're at 15/16 IPS AND that they're 4 track and on a regular mono player you'd get one forward track and one backwards track, and on a stereo one, you'd have to completely turn off one channel, and the other channel you'd have to re-record and play backward to get. At Braille Institute, there's been talk of putting things onto CD and it was pointed out that if that were to happen, it would have to be in a whole different format that a normal machine coudln't access, to be legal. (My roommate is on the advisory committe at Braille. I'm his ride. I don't really listen to much of the meetings, but that part was interesting enough I came up out of my book to attend to it.) On the start of each tape, there's a disclaimer to the effect that copies are not allowed to be made. The format of that warning varies, but I can't remember hearing a recording that doesn't have it. Larry - thanks for the info on the fees for Nasfic! I'm saving it. Take care, everyone. Jaye orchestra@xxxxxx.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 05:57:36 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Lost Novel? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Slan by errr someone or other was mentioned on one of the books but I can't find it here in Australia (at a library or a second hand book store). Does anyone know anything about his book and is this possibly the book you are looking for here? Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:33:30 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: Lost Novel? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LadyEliza wrote: > > Slan by errr someone or other was mentioned on one of the books but I can't > find it here in Australia (at a library or a second hand book store). Does > anyone know anything about his book and is this possibly the book you are > looking for here? > > Eliza ambrov Halwyn > Companion to Zoe Farris Oh SLAN! Yes I have two copies of that. I've read that story dozens of times and still love it. A.E. Van Vogt wrote it. The male and female ffleeing in the first part are Jommy Cross and his mother, in one of the human cities, running from the police. See, Slans are born telepaths and there was a Slan-human war in which the slans almost took over, but humans nearly wiped them out. One of the more 'infamous' characters is "Granny". :) -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:25:54 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: National Library Service Recordings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jaye Wrote: I can add one bit of information on the copyright thing for blind people. ____IF____ my memory is correct (E's not sure but he forgets what he's heard at times) By law, books recorded for the blind, to be mailed out the way we check out library books on loan, have to be in a format that is NOT AVAILABLE FOR USE on machines in commercial use. ((Snipped)) You've got this exactly right, Jaye ---- Our own Sime~Gen recording project is a little different. First of all we never did and never will distribute the NLS materials. We always did our own readings and they are available in four track format --- but at standard cassette speed. They are not playable on standard equipment, but only on the special tape machines that Talking Books use. I make up the tapes from blanks supplied by the people requesting the books (custom order) so that they can keep the materials, unlike a library book. --- Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:32:36 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 27 Aug 1998 to 28 Aug 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:39 PM 8/29/98 -0700, Jaye wrote: >I can add one bit of information on the copyright thing for blind people. > >____IF____ my memory is correct (E's not sure but he forgets what he's >heard at >times) > >By law, books recorded for the blind, to be mailed out the way we check out >library books on loan, have to be in a format that is NOT AVAILABLE FOR USE on >machines in commercial use. > On LP, that's met by the RPM being 8 rather than 33, 45, or 78, which is what >commercial record players play. On cassette it's both that they're at 15/16 >IPS >AND that they're 4 track and on a regular mono player you'd get one forward >track and one backwards track, and on a stereo one, you'd have to completely >turn off one channel, and the other channel you'd have to re-record and play >backward to get. All you need is a stereo recorder/player with variable speed and pitch, a studio variety available in special catalogues from time to time. I have one, purchased years ago from an educational catalogue. And to play the second side you flip the tape and try one channel, then the other, to see which one continues the story correctly. > At Braille Institute, there's been talk of putting things onto CD and it was >pointed out that if that were to happen, it would have to be in a whole >different format that a normal machine coudln't access, to be legal. This is SO easy!!! Look, no one has ever been seriously interested in keeping the "wrong" people from reading talking books; it's just inconvenient for most poeple to acquire the necessary equipment. So all they have to do is password-protect the CD's and give the password out only to those people who are supposed to have access. Fact: not enough people want to read the books this way when they are readily available in other formats for there to be much copying at all. Remember, all through the history of talking books ANYBODY could hook a talking book player to an ordinary tape recorder and make a copy. This isn't the secrets of some new high-tech weapon. The only purpose of protection is INCONVENIENCE to people who are not supposed to be using these books. A password will do that. > (My roommate is on the advisory committe at Braille. I'm his ride. I don't >really listen to much of the meetings, but that part was interesting enough I >came up out of my book to attend to it.) > >On the start of each tape, there's a disclaimer to the effect that copies are >not allowed to be made. The format of that warning varies, but I can't >remember >hearing a recording that doesn't have it. Which means that it is easily possible to make copies in ordinary formats. It's just not worth bootleggers' efforts. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:40:08 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Lost Novel? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:33 AM 8/27/98 -0400, Jaye wrote: >Oh SLAN! Yes I have two copies of that. I've read that story dozens of >times and still love it. > >A.E. Van Vogt wrote it. The male and female ffleeing in the first part >are Jommy Cross and his mother, in one of the human cities, running from >the police. See, Slans are born telepaths and there was a Slan-human >war in which the slans almost took over, but humans nearly wiped them >out. If SLAN is the lost novel, then the reason it resonates S~G to a S~G fan is that Jacqueline is a huge SLAN fan, and that book was one of the inspirations for Sime~Gen. Interesting how human memory works: there are no starred crosses in SLAN, but as the characters are named Cross that apparently was enough for a S~G fan to misremember a name as a symbol. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:05:58 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Real-life Cyberpunk Comments: cc: helen.roulston@xxxxxx.edu, cormo@xxxxxx.com, rallen@xxxxxx.EdU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And Now for Something Completely Different ... A United Kingdom researcher implants a silicon chip in his arm to demonstrate how computers and humans may communicate in the future. by Jana Sanchez-Klein, IDG News Service August 27, 1998, 12:06 p.m. PT A professor at the University of Reading in England has had a silicon chip transponder implanted into his arm to demonstrate how computers and humans might be able to communicate in the future. Professor Kevin Warwick envisions a world in which humans communicate directly with computers without extraneous input devices such as mice and keyboards, and a world in which humans network continually with computers, he said. The experiment could have wide-ranging implications for employers and for society in general as humans determine how closely they want to be connected with computers. It's Only Temporary The chip, about an inch long and one-tenth of an inch wide, was implanted into Warwick's arm on Monday afternoon in a surgical procedure lasting only 15 minutes. He was given a local anesthetic and is not currently in any pain, he said. The chip is a commercially available product used in computers and other products for identification. Warwick is the first human to have such a chip implanted, he said. However, he declined to name the manufacturer of the chip. With the chip implanted in his arm, Warwick is effectively wired up to the computers in his building at the university. When he walks throughout the building, computers automatically pull up preprogrammed Web pages such as his favorite sites, doors open, and computers say "Hello, Professor Warwick," or tell him how many e-mail messages he has. If Warwick doesn't have the chip removed within ten days, his body will start to accept it, and removing it will become more of a surgical procedure, he said. He doesn't want to continue the experiment much past that point anyway. "I'm worried that technology will advance and I'll become obsolete--my wife will want to swap me for a more powerful chip," he quipped. That fear aside, Warwick may want to carry out an experiment in a year's time, he said. Surprising Results The effect of the chip on his life has surprised him. "Literally, as I walk around the building, things happen. It's funny that I've become used to it. I now don't have to open doors," said the professor. The long-term implications for widespread use of chip implants are apparent from the experiment. "I'm feeling more at one with the computer. It's as though part of me is missing when I'm not in the building," Warwick said. "In my house, I have to open doors and turn on lights. I don't feel lonely, but I don't feel complete," he added. The ultimate aim of this technology, said Warwick, would be to connect humans more closely with computers. A simple example is responding to e-mails with the move of a finger, or ultimately connecting the computer to the human nervous system. "You then really have a direct connection from the brain to the computer. That has been a science fiction idea, but maybe technically this is step one," he said. In such a future scenario, keyboards and mice will become obsolete, Warwick predicted. "This is the communications revolution between humans and computers," he said. Serious Implications Looking at serious real-life potential applications of the technology, companies would be able to use the implants to monitor employees more closely during work. "The company would know when they come into the building and when they leave the building. They would know when employees went to the toilet and how long they stayed," suggested Warwick. "If you did get the sack, you would have to have your implant taken out. It might make people even less keen to get sacked, knowing it would mean surgery." Broader examples of the technology's use could include implanting gun owners to prevent them from going into schools, or tagging pedophiles to keep them away from schools or child centers. "If that person tries to go into a school, bells would ring, doors would shut, and so forth. You could have pedophile-free zones," said Warwick. Warwick is in the cybernetics department at the University of Reading. Cybernetics is the study of interaction between humans and machines. Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:26:23 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 27 Aug 1998 to 28 Aug 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > > Jaye (I think) wrote: > > > At Braille Institute, there's been talk of putting things onto CD and it was > >pointed out that if that were to happen, it would have to be in a whole > >different format that a normal machine coudln't access, to be legal. > > This is SO easy!!! Look, no one has ever been seriously interested in > keeping the "wrong" people from reading talking books; it's just > inconvenient for most poeple to acquire the necessary equipment. So all > they have to do is password-protect the CD's and give the password out only > to those people who are supposed to have access. Or make it encrypted, but put on all the 'reader' programs the decryption key - the blind don't even have to remember a password, they just have to have the program. It's pretty much the same thing, it's just that the password is remembered by the computer. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:59:50 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: Lost Novel? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I never knew Jacqueline is a Slan fan..Thats really cool. I had a stepfather who hated all forms of science fiction, but to get on my mom's goodside one day, he bbrought me home a book he bought at a garage sale; in it were three novels, "World of Null-A", "The Voyage of the Space Beagle" and "Slan". I loved all three stories. I think I was 12 when he bought that book. It was ironic he just happened to pick that one out of many. He disliked Sci-fi so much that when he ridiculed me for liking it, he'd get places and names mixed up..Like Captain Koenig of the starship Alpha... -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:33:27 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Leigh Kimmel Subject: listserv Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm here, altho I'm still struggling to catch up with all the stuff that got backed up while I was gone to Worldcon, etc -- and I still have to *find* some papers that apparently went into hiding during the move. I'll try to take care of any major emergencies re. the list, altho it'll be a little while before I have time to take care of routine stuff. BTW, which address am I listed under as listowner for the new list on simegen.com? I believe the info on subscribers was coming to my siu.edu address rather than my globaleyes.net one. The former may disappear at any time once IT discovers that I've left SIU. The globaleyes.net one should be permanent, as long as GlobalEyes Communications doesn't go belly-up. "I do believe my crucifixion before the public has about reached its limit." ---- Admiral Husband E. Kimmel Leigh Kimmel -- writer, artist and historian kimmel@xxxxxx.net http://members.tripod.com/~kimmel/lhkwebpage.html keeper of the Sime~Gen mailing list, simegen-l@xxxxxx.edu Ask me how to order the new S~G novel!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:07:49 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Taking a Channel for Sushi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" She didn't like it :( Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:10:48 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Newsletter Site Update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit With thanks to Sandy Steiner (who did the coding), the latest issue of "Sime~Gen Perspectives" newsletter is up on the site. I'm not sure if all the links are working --- but you can check the site at: http://members.aol.com/hobbit8965/index.html Any problems, please let me know. Sandy said she would make any code corrections we would need. Again THANK YOU Sandy!! Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:15:46 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Taking a Channel for Sushi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:07 PM 8/29/98 +1000, you wrote: >She didn't like it :( Big surprise: cold and sour. Yuk! BTW, a channel really should like what her Companion enjoys. Are you sure _you_ like sushi? Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:34:25 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Newsletter Site Update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:10 PM 8/29/98 EDT, you wrote: > With thanks to Sandy Steiner (who did the coding), the latest issue >of "Sime~Gen Perspectives" newsletter is up on the site. I'm not sure if all >the links are working --- but you can check the site at: >http://members.aol.com/hobbit8965/index.html > Any problems, please let me know. Sandy said she would make any >code corrections we would need. Again THANK YOU Sandy!! Just a very simple change: cut and paste the links to the newsletters (the thing people came to this page to see) to put them ahead of the vast list of other links from that opening page. Everything, including the very-bottom-of-the-page copyright notice, currently has to be scrolled through to find what the viewer came for. This is a basic rule of website design: put the thing the viewer clicked for first. Otherwise, good job. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 22:49:56 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Wendy Fisher Subject: Re: Lost Novel? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/29/98 1:30:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, j-man@xxxxxx.COM writes: << LadyEliza wrote: > > Slan by errr someone or other was mentioned on one of the books but I can't > find it here in Australia (at a library or a second hand book store). Does > anyone know anything about his book and is this possibly the book you are > looking for here? > > Eliza ambrov Halwyn > Companion to Zoe Farris >> Nope, sorry, it wasn't Slan either (another old favorite)! Wendy Fisher fishydu@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:59:37 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: WORK: JOKE: Publishers and Lightbulbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Publishing and Lightbulbs Q. How many editors does it take to screw in a lightbulb? A. Only one; but first they have to rewire the entire building. Q. How many sales directors does it take to screw in a lightbulb? A. (pause) I get it! This is one of those lightbulb jokes, right? Q. How many managing editors does it take to change a lightbulb? A. You were supposed to have changed that lightbulb last week! Q. How many art directors does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Does it HAVE to be a lightbulb? Q. How many copyeditors does it take to change a lightbulb? A. The last time this question was asked, it involved art directors. Is the difference intentional? Should one or the other instance be changed? It seems inconsistent. Q. How many marketing directors does it take to change a lightbulb? A. It isn't too late to make this neon instead, is it? Q. How many proofreaders does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Proofreaders aren't supposed to change lightbulbs. They should just query them. Q. How many writers does it take to change a lightbulb? A. But why do we have to CHANGE it? Q. How many cover artists does it take to change a lightbulb? A. Why is there...an eggbeater, I think?...sticking out of this light fixture? Q. How many publishers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? A. Three. One to screw it in, two to hold down the author. Submitted By... ElizabethK @xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:36:23 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 28 Aug 1998 to 29 Aug 1998 In-Reply-To: <199808300500.AAA58400@xxxxxx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jean - Yeah, you're right -- NLS format is based more on inconvenience than anything else. When I lived in Ga, it seemed at every country crossroads there was a pickup selling bootleg 8-traks (yeah, I know it dates me) of music... I suppose if there'd been a black market for recorded books, they could have done that almost as easily, now that you mention it. In a way, I wish there WERE such a market for literature, but I'm also glad that authors haven't had to deal with it the way musicians do. (Seems like 2 kinds of people do stuff like that -- those who honestly haven't thought through the royalty issue and those who know it perfectly and decide that their family budgets are more important than the artists' and anything they can get away with is just fine.) Which I think is one reason software companies want it prosecuted so severely... and I understand that completely. A worker is worthy of her hire, whether she's writing code or fiction. Jaye orchestra@xxxxxx.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 01:48:09 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: IMPORTANT: The list Comments: To: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Everyone should see this message twice. Leigh and Tori aren't able to do this, so I'm organising the list migration. I am /not/ good at this sort of thing, but I'm Johnny-on-the-spot so please bear with me, people. Apparently this weekend is a key weekend when we can expect to lose the siu.edu address, so please - everyone change your aliases and/or habits. The Sime~Gen list runs through simegen-l@xxxxxx.com. If you got this twice, you're on both lists. Congratulations, the migration should go smoothly for you - just change where you post /to/ in future. If you only got this once, look at where this message came from. * Did you get it from simegen-l@xxxxxx.edu? If so, and you /want/ to stay with us, email listserv@xxxxxx.com with 'subscribe simegen-l YOUR_NAME_HERE' in the message body. * Did you get it from simegen-l@xxxxxx.com and not from siu.edu? If so, you probably unsubscribed /after/ I got the list addresses & I inadvertently caught you. My apologies, and you can get out of it by unsubscribing again. * Does it say you got it directly from me (jenn@xxxxxx.org.au)? If so, and you don't know how to check, you can send the message to me (hit reply, and if it seems to be sending it to the list, just change the address) and I will check for you. But if you got it /twice/ from me, don't worry - you're on both lists. You may have received this in digest mode in one, and not in the other. I /think/ I managed to keep people's digest or nomail options - but if I didn't, you can set it digest or nomail the same way you did in the old listserv. Tori's FAQ says the right things, just replace siu.edu with simegen.com, anywhere it appears. If anyone has questions which they think many people might need the answers, feel free to email simegen-l@xxxxxx.com with the questions & we'll post the answers. If you have a question which you think is more unique, go ahead and email me privately. I'll try to be as helpful as I can. If you have a web page which has subscription info on it, please update it. The same commands will work, just change siu.edu to simegen.com. (Note, however, that we've lost the topic mask commands.) If you know of a web page which hasn't been updated, please let us know. Finally: everyone, please remember to use simegen-l@xxxxxx.com from now on. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:14:52 -0500 Reply-To: astevens@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Alison C. Stevens" Organization: Stevens Consulting Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list- I don't know how to check MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...Does it say you got it directly from me (jenn@xxxxxx.org.au)? If so, > and you don't know how to check, you can send the message to me (hit reply, > and if it seems to be sending it to the list, just change the address) and > I will check for you... I only got this message once. Please help. Respectfully, Alison, a newbie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:45:43 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oooooops......I didn't get the message twice.........what's up? Cheryl Wolverton This SIde of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:48:54 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list In-Reply-To: <35E97438.730A9059@xxxxxx..au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I only received the SIU copy. I've sent the EMail to sub. Has anybody recieved two copies? Cherri ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:59:45 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Lisa W Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980830124854.008c8780@xxxxxx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Not me I only got one. Hugs all around! Lisa ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:20:39 +0000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Marge Robbins Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list Comments: To: Jenn Vespeerman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I only got the message once posted to the list at siu.edu. Marge Jenn V. wrote: > Everyone should see this message twice. > > Leigh and Tori aren't able to do this, so I'm organising the list > migration. I am /not/ good at this sort of thing, but I'm > Johnny-on-the-spot so please bear with me, people. > > Apparently this weekend is a key weekend when we can expect to lose the > siu.edu address, so please - everyone change your aliases and/or habits. > The Sime~Gen list runs through simegen-l@xxxxxx.com. > > If you got this twice, you're on both lists. Congratulations, the migration > should go smoothly for you - just change where you post /to/ in future. > > If you only got this once, look at where this message came from. > > * Did you get it from simegen-l@xxxxxx.edu? If so, and you /want/ to stay > with us, email listserv@xxxxxx.com with 'subscribe simegen-l > YOUR_NAME_HERE' in the message body. > > * Did you get it from simegen-l@xxxxxx.com and not from siu.edu? If so, > you probably unsubscribed /after/ I got the list addresses & I > inadvertently caught you. My apologies, and you can get out of it by > unsubscribing again. > > * Does it say you got it directly from me (jenn@xxxxxx.org.au)? If so, > and you don't know how to check, you can send the message to me (hit reply, > and if it seems to be sending it to the list, just change the address) and > I will check for you. But if you got it /twice/ from me, don't worry - > you're on both lists. > > You may have received this in digest mode in one, and not in the other. I > /think/ I managed to keep people's digest or nomail options - but if I > didn't, you can set it digest or nomail the same way you did in the old > listserv. Tori's FAQ says the right things, just replace siu.edu with > simegen.com, anywhere it appears. > > If anyone has questions which they think many people might need the > answers, feel free to email simegen-l@xxxxxx.com with the questions & > we'll post the answers. > > If you have a question which you think is more unique, go ahead and email > me privately. I'll try to be as helpful as I can. > > If you have a web page which has subscription info on it, please update it. > The same commands will work, just change siu.edu to simegen.com. > (Note, however, that we've lost the topic mask commands.) > > If you know of a web page which hasn't been updated, please let us know. > > Finally: everyone, please remember to use simegen-l@xxxxxx.com from now > on. > > Jenn V. > -- > It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise > > Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn -- Chanel@xxxxxx.com mrobbins@xxxxxx.net mrobbins@xxxxxx.com http://www.simegen.com/chanel/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 13:42:35 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Don Jaramillo Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list Comments: To: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I only got it once too. I sent off a subscription message to simegen.com, and got back a reply that I'm already subscribed. :-) Follow Your LIST!! Don -----Original Message----- From: Cheryl Wolverton To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 12:51 PM Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list >oooooops......I didn't get the message twice.........what's up? > >Cheryl Wolverton >This SIde of Paradise Aug 98 >The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 >A Mother's Love May 99 >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:51:55 -0400 Reply-To: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: BACK: New Chronology Now with Years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: Driving myself crazy with the time-frame questions about THE FARRIS CHANNEL, I finally got the whole 3 thousand year chronology up on the web with actual YEAR DATES -- and I named the new calendar that goes into effect at Unity. I hope you like the name. THE NEW CHRONOLOGY is posted on Rimon's Library http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/5683/CHRONO1.html Jean and I will be working from this calendar -- (may change a few numbers around COMPANIONS and FARRIS CHANNEL, and around Unity itself there might be some fudging around because Jean's characters Zhag and Tonyo haven't confessed everything yet). And we're not sure when Oliver Tigue blows the whistle on the Secret Pens -- he's very secretive. I would like to ask anyone who has stories posted online, or who is working on a story to PLACE THE STORY by year. When a story happens BEFORE UNITY, the characters of course don't know the date is -XXX before Unity, so I would like you to place the story for the chronology and key the readers by putting the YEAR DATE (or time-span or "circa -433" ) under the title line of the story. The more precise you can be about your dates, the more likely your story will be identified as happening before or after other stories in the same time-frame. We really needed to do this years ago. I just hope I haven't made any terrible mistakes. I worked from the Text of RENSIME -- and Katie's chronology in the back of the pb. My year-dates are different from her table, but according to Digen's Eulogy -- and where Mairis said 700 years, I made it exactly that instead of some vague number. It's much easier to keep a calendar when the years have numbers. *sigh* NOTE the new place to go to sign up for the new List if for some reason you don't get an email notice when SIU pulls the plug. Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE http://zeor.simegen.com/archives/ for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:59:25 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:42 PM 8/30/98 -0700, Don wrote: >Well, I only got it once too. I sent off a subscription message to >simegen.com, and got back a reply that I'm already subscribed. :-) > >Follow Your LIST!! I had the same experience as Don. Note--at this download a number of people have reported receiving the message only once, through SIU, and no one reports getting it through simegen.com. But the listserv IS sending automated messages, so simegen.com is not down. Jenn? Any ideas what's happened? Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:43:28 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Zoe Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have not recieved this twice, so far. Zoe. Cherri wrote: > I only received the SIU copy. I've sent the EMail to sub. Has anybody > recieved two copies? > > Cherri ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:48:58 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Margaret Carter Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I received the message only once, also (from siu-edu). From the other messages, I get the impression nobody received it twice? Margaret ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:49:08 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Don Jaramillo Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list Comments: To: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Jean Lorrah To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:03 PM Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list >>Follow Your LIST!! > >I had the same experience as Don. Note--at this download a number of people >have reported receiving the message only once, through SIU, and no one >reports getting it through simegen.com. But the listserv IS sending >automated messages, so simegen.com is not down. With both of these messages, I've been sending messages to both SIU and simegen. My message only arrived from simegen.com. Also, are we going to have to do settings for simegen.com? Receiving own messages, topics, etc.? Let Go, Let Gen! Don ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:00:45 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kierestelli Aradia Morgan Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list Comments: cc: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com In-Reply-To: <067101bdd479$29b98f80$a6cc4fce@xxxxxx.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, Don Jaramillo wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean Lorrah > To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU > Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:03 PM > Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list > > > >>Follow Your LIST!! > > > >I had the same experience as Don. Note--at this download a number of > people > >have reported receiving the message only once, through SIU, and no one > >reports getting it through simegen.com. But the listserv IS sending > >automated messages, so simegen.com is not down. > > > With both of these messages, I've been sending messages to both SIU and > simegen. My message only arrived from simegen.com. > > Also, are we going to have to do settings for simegen.com? Receiving own > messages, topics, etc.? > > Let Go, Let Gen! > cute, Don. I've also gotten nothing from simegen.com... thanks, Kiri ****************************************************************************** Kierestelli Aradia Morgan tiamat@xxxxxx.com "She lost her dream playing at love; she forgot that she had to let her mind shine all the time. Little by little, she is learning to understand the meaning of things they never taught her in school." -- OZAKI Yutaka, 1965-1992 *>i<* "If you really want to enjoy life, you must work quietly and humbly and realize your delusions of grandeur." -- Mark Helprin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:18:43 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Testing...testing Comments: To: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Don wrote, >With both of these messages, I've been sending messages to both SIU and >simegen. My message only arrived from simegen.com. > >Also, are we going to have to do settings for simegen.com? Receiving own >messages, topics, etc.? Okay, that's what I'm doing with this message. I got only one copy, from SIU, of either of Don's messages, so it appears that listserv@xxxxxx.com is not sending anyone anything except acknowledgments of sub messages. As topic masks won't work with this version, it can't be that we each have to go in activate the topics we want, and since I am not receiving other people's messages, it isn't that I have to send a "set ACK" message to get my own. What I have done is to send a "set simegen-l mail" message, just in case everyone begins with the NOMAIL setting. If that works--if messages start coming through--I will let you know. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:24:40 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << > >Follow Your LIST!! I had the same experience as Don. Note--at this download a number of people have reported receiving the message only once, through SIU, and no one reports getting it through simegen.com. But the listserv IS sending automated messages, so simegen.com is not down. >> Go to simegen.com/contacts.html and fill out the form to sign yourself up. I did and received a confirmation (which you later have to confirm back). There are only a few settings available -- no topic masks Digest Full List No Mail Receive your own posts DO NOT receive your own posts If we continue to use the masks on our own, we can still filter out mail in our own computers to eliminate what we do not want to read. Hope this is helpful ---- Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:32:27 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Still no mail Comments: To: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" When I sent a "set mail" message to listserv@xxxxxx.com, all I got was an automated message saying my account was already set that way. I am now trying a "set repro" message. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:46:45 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list - Message from Jenn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ok - I phoned Jenn. She said she hasn't yet read the emails but it sounds like it's a problem with the forwarding - no big problem and she will fix it when she wakes up. Eliza ambrov Halwyn Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:51:25 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Command confirmation at Simegen.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I received this as confirmation of my own signing on to the Simegen.com list. Suggest you all do the same. << Subj: Re: Command confirmation request (595F4376) Date: 98-08-30 21:25:02 EDT From: LISTSERV@xxxxxx.SIMEGEN.COM (L-Soft list server at Virtual Selyn - Sime~Gen Mailing List (1.8c)) To: KLitman323@xxxxxx.com (Karen Litman) > OK Confirming: > SUBSCRIBE SIMEGEN-L Karen Litman You are already subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list as "Karen Litman". >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:58:10 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Command confirmation at Simegen.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No - you are probibly already subscribed. We know the automatic reply works - it's the forwarding that isn't. Please no one do ANYTHING else until Jenn has had a chance to look at it - and she needs to SLEEP first. Eliza At 21:51 30/08/98 EDT, you wrote: >I received this as confirmation of my own signing on to the Simegen.com list. >Suggest you all do the same. > ><< Subj: Re: Command confirmation request (595F4376) > Date: 98-08-30 21:25:02 EDT > From: LISTSERV@xxxxxx.SIMEGEN.COM (L-Soft list server at Virtual Selyn - >Sime~Gen Mailing List (1.8c)) > To: KLitman323@xxxxxx.com (Karen Litman) > > > OK > Confirming: > > SUBSCRIBE SIMEGEN-L Karen Litman > You are already subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list as "Karen Litman". >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:47:28 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list - Message from Jenn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LadyEliza wrote: > > Ok - I phoned Jenn. She said she hasn't yet read the emails but it sounds > like it's a problem with the forwarding - no big problem and she will fix > it when she wakes up. > > Eliza ambrov Halwyn > Companion to Zoe Farris I think I've fixed it. If people still aren't getting stuff, lemme know. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:03:55 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: Testing...testing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Lorrah wrote: > Okay, that's what I'm doing with this message. I got only one copy, from > SIU, of either of Don's messages, so it appears that listserv@xxxxxx.com is > not sending anyone anything except acknowledgments of sub messages. As > topic masks won't work with this version, it can't be that we each have to > go in activate the topics we want, and since I am not receiving other > people's messages, it isn't that I have to send a "set ACK" message to get > my own. > > What I have done is to send a "set simegen-l mail" message, just in case > everyone begins with the NOMAIL setting. If that works--if messages start > coming through--I will let you know. Jean If you want the technical aspects of my public goofing: Error 1. I'd not realised that /etc/exim/configure overrides /etc/aliases, and /etc/exim/configure had a *.simegen.com rule which meant that simegen-l@xxxxxx.com didn't reach /etc/aliases for matching. Error 2. When zeor crashed in a lightning storm, Dancer had rerun smail's configuration. Thus, simegen-l@xxxxxx.simegen.com's redirection into listserv's program had been lost by the reconfigure, and neither of us noticed. The combination of errors meant that noone was getting mail from simegen-l@xxxxxx.com because the mail wasn't getting to the listserv program, but the listserv program was running fine and telling everyone the list really did exist and that their subscriptions were just fine. So I goofed. Publically. Won't be the last time. Isn't the first. THIS is - as I said in a less caffienated, more just-woken-up message - why we do these things before we HAVE to. Go check it now, and lemme know if it doesn't work. Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:31:30 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Testing...testing Comments: To: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jenn asked for a test. If everyone gets two copies of this, she has fixed the problem. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:40:42 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Munoz Subject: Re: Testing...testing Comments: To: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980831023130.0070288c@xxxxxx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I received both. :) Cherri ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:55:32 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Jenn comes through again! Comments: To: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yay! Simegen-l@xxxxxx.com is now working! We have our own home, folks. Thank, you, Jenn. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:27:42 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kierestelli Aradia Morgan Subject: Re: Testing...testing Comments: cc: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980830194042.008bdda0@xxxxxx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, Cherri Munoz wrote: > I received both. :) > I didn't. Why not? Kiri :) ****************************************************************************** Kierestelli Aradia Morgan tiamat@xxxxxx.com "She lost her dream playing at love; she forgot that she had to let her mind shine all the time. Little by little, she is learning to understand the meaning of things they never taught her in school." -- OZAKI Yutaka, 1965-1992 *>i<* "If you really want to enjoy life, you must work quietly and humbly and realize your delusions of grandeur." -- Mark Helprin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:20:39 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Subject: Re: SIMEGEN-L Digest - 29 Aug 1998 to 30 Aug 1998 In-Reply-To: <199808310500.AAA186086@xxxxxx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I only got 1 copy. Jaye orchestra@xxxxxx.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:46:43 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Gossamer Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list In-Reply-To: <35E97438.730A9059@xxxxxx..au>; from Jenn Vesperman on Mon, Aug 31, 1998 at 01:48:09AM +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jenn Vesperman wrote: > Leigh and Tori aren't able to do this, so I'm organising the list > migration. I am /not/ good at this sort of thing, but I'm > Johnny-on-the-spot so please bear with me, people. [... snip of great clear instructions ...] Also, a round of applause to Jenn for doing all this work on the new listservers! I run lists, I know how much work it is - trust me, she deserves a round of applauuse! Gossamer -- : Gossamer - gossamer@xxxxxx.net.au - http://tertius.net.au/~gossamer/ : Department of Virtual Tecton Construction (Smof Boards): : http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/boards/ : The more you love, the more you *can* love - and the more intensely : you love. Nor is there any limit on how *many* you can love. If a : person has time enough, he could love all of that majority who are : decent and just. -- Heinlein ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 07:37:42 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Larry P Ulrey Subject: Re: Testing...testing On Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:31:30 -0500 Jean Lorrah writes: >Jenn asked for a test. > >If everyone gets two copies of this, she has fixed the problem. Jean I still just got one. Larry Ulrey ulrey@xxxxxx.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:05:34 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cindy Leonard-Krinsky Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am still kind of new to this listserve thing. I did not receive the two e-mails; I only received one from SIU. However, I have been receiving e-mails from SIMEGEN.COM, so I assume that I am indeed subscribed. Am I? Do I need to subscribe as Karen explains below? Whatever the case, I also do not know how to use the settings she describes. How is this done? Is there someplace that explains how to set these things? Thanks, Cindy ---Karen Litman wrote: > Go to simegen.com/contacts.html and fill out the form to sign yourself up. I > did and received a confirmation (which you later have to confirm back). > > There are only a few settings available -- no topic masks > Digest > Full List > No Mail > Receive your own posts > DO NOT receive your own posts > > If we continue to use the masks on our own, we can still filter out mail in > our own computers to eliminate what we do not want to read. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxxxxx.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 03:45:13 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: TWO COPIES Comments: To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok. The listserv on simegen.com is working, and is actively being used. This is sort of a last call - a last call from me, anyway. If you DO NOT get a copy of this message from simegen.com, YOU ARE NOT SUBSCRIBED. email listserv@xxxxxx.com with subscribe simegen-l FIRSTNAME LASTNAME in the message body. If that doesn't subscribe you, email me. If you're subscribed, and shouldn't be, email listserv@xxxxxx.com with 'unsubscribe simegen-l' in the message body. Thanks, Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:44:31 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I only received the one copy, from SIU.EDU. I went ahead and subscribed to the simegen.com list. Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:34:52 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Jenn V." Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: The list Comments: To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cindy Leonard-Krinsky wrote: > > I am still kind of new to this listserve thing. I did not receive the > two e-mails; I only received one from SIU. However, I have been > receiving e-mails from SIMEGEN.COM, so I assume that I am indeed > subscribed. Am I? Do I need to subscribe as Karen explains below? Yes, if you've been receiving the emails from SIMEGEN.COM, you are subscribed. My initial email proved that I'd made a mistake - /noone/ received the second one. I fixed it since. > Whatever the case, I also do not know how to use the settings she > describes. How is this done? Is there someplace that explains how to > set these things? > > Thanks, > Cindy > > There are only a few settings available -- no topic masks > > Digest > > Full List > > No Mail > > Receive your own posts > > DO NOT receive your own posts Yes, there is. On the WELCOMMITTEE page there is a FAQ which Tori wrote explaining all of this - the direct page for the FAQ is http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6015/listserv.html You can also set the options using a web page if you prefer that to email, at http://zeor.simegen.com/archives/ Jenn V. -- It's amazing where you can go with a completely false premise Jenn Vesperman jenn@xxxxxx.org.au http://www.brisnet.org.au/~jenn

Of course, the lines won't be of equal length
because the user's variable-width font
probably isn't the same as the author's.
C'est la vie. You can get monowidth font
(e.g. Courier) by dropping the BR tags
and wrapping the whole thing in PRE tags.
-- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:54:51 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: TECH: WYSWYG HTML Editors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kaas Baichtal wrote: > Jean... would it be possible for you to not slam WYSWYG programs and their > users quite so much? As with any other tool, these utilities are only as > good, or bad, as the person who is using them. I cannot agree with you. For passive tools, like a chisel, "only as good or bad as the person using them" may be true. Active tools, however, induce their own way of doing things, which may be a disaster to the user or to others. What would you say if major automobile manufacturers were selling cars, at high prices too, which had brakes that only worked below 40 mph? You'd urge everyone you know to stay away from those cars at all costs, even the suicidal. It's bad for *everyone* if such "tools" are available. (Don't laugh too hard. Such cars *were* once available: see _Unsafe At Any Speed_.) -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:38:50 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Maureen Gibbins Subject: Geocities and Privacy In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980814012351.006f4624@xxxxxx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jean wrote: > >As I understand it, they don't sell my personal data or e-dress to >advertisers; they sell, X million patrons, X% under 20, X% over 50, X% with >graduate degrees, etc. etc. etc. I don't think that violates anyone's >privacy. Jean > Here in great detail are the allegations against GeoCities and the action taken (in case there are any GeoCities members on the list who might be interested). It also makes me wonder if we have (or want to have) any privacy policies posted on sites where we gather information. - Maureen Internet Site Agrees to Settle FTC Charges of Deceptively Collecting Personal Information in Agency's First Internet Privacy Case Commission Establishes Strong Mechanisms for Protecting Consumers' Privacy Online GeoCities, one of the most popular sites on the World Wide Web, has agreed to settle Federal Trade Commission charges that it misrepresented the purposes for which it was collecting personal identifying information from children and adults. This is the first FTC case involving Internet privacy. Under the settlement, GeoCities has agreed to post on its site a clear and prominent Privacy Notice, telling consumers what information is being collected and for what purpose, to whom it will be disclosed, and how consumers can access and remove the information. To ensure parental control, GeoCities also would have to obtain parental consent before collecting information from children 12 and under. "GeoCities misled its customers, both children and adults, by not telling the truth about how it was using their personal information," said Jodie Bernstein, Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection. "This case is a message to all Internet marketers that statements about their information collection practices must be accurate and complete. The FTC will continue to monitor these Internet sites and bring enforcement actions when it's appropriate. GeoCities should be commended for stepping forward and agreeing to undertake important privacy protections for consumers. I hope that other Web sites will follow GeoCities' lead in implementing these protections." GeoCities, headquartered in Santa Monica, California, operates the GeoCities Web site, a "virtual community" consisting of members' personal home pages organized into themed areas, called neighborhoods. GeoCities has over 2 million members, and industry reports have identified it as the third most frequently visited Web site accessed from consumers' homes. The GeoCities Web site can be found at http://www.geocities.com (no period). GeoCities provides numerous services to its members, including free and fee-based personal home pages and free e-mail service. In order to become a member of GeoCities, individuals must complete an online application form that requests certain personal identifying information. At the time of the investigation, the form designated certain information as mandatory and other information as "optional." The form also asked applicants to select whether they wished to receive specific "special offers" from advertisers, and specific products or services from individual companies. Through this registration process, GeoCities created a database that included e-mail and postal addresses, member interest areas, and demographics including income, education, gender, marital status and occupation, the FTC said. According to the agency, this information created target markets for advertisers and resulted in disclosure of personal identifying information of children and adults to third-party marketers. The FTC's complaint alleges that GeoCities misrepresented that the personal identifying information it collected through the membership application form was used only to provide members the specific advertising offers and products or services they requested, and that the "optional" information (education level, income, marital status, occupation, and interests) would not be released to anyone without the member's permission. In fact, the complaint alleges, this information was disclosed to third parties, who used it to target members for solicitations beyond those agreed to by the member. The complaint also charges that GeoCities engaged in deceptive practices relating to its collection of information from children. According to the FTC, GeoCities promotes the Official GeoCities GeoKidz Club and contests for children in the Enchanted Forest neighborhood. Children wishing to join in these activities are required to complete forms that solicit personal identifying information. The agency charged that GeoCities misrepresented that GeoCities itself operated the GeoKidz Club and certain contests, and that the information collected online through the club and contests was maintained by GeoCities. In fact, according to the complaint, the Club and contests were run by third-party "community leaders" hosted on the GeoCities Web site, who collected and maintained the information. The proposed settlement would prohibit GeoCities from misrepresenting the purpose for which it collects or uses personal identifying information from or about consumers, including children. Personal information is defined to include name, physical and e-mail address, phone number, and any other information that by itself or in combination with other information is identifiable to a specific individual. The order would require the company to post on its site a clear and prominent Privacy Notice, telling consumers what information is being collected and for what purpose, to whom it will be disclosed, and how consumers can access and remove the information. The Notice, or a clear and prominent hyperlink to the Notice, would have to appear on the Web site's home page and at each location on the site at which such information is collected. The order also would prohibit GeoCities from misrepresenting either the identity of a party collecting any personal identifying information or the sponsorship of any activity on its Web site. To ensure parental control, the settlement would require GeoCities to obtain parental consent before collecting personal identifying information from children 12 and under. This provision conforms to current industry self-regulatory guidelines. The order would not require any particular procedure for obtaining parental consent, allowing for future technological developments, but would include a specific procedure that would be deemed to comply with the order. Under that procedure, GeoCities could collect certain "limited screening information" from consumers attempting to register at the site for the purpose of identifying and blocking children 12 and under from registering without their parent's permission. The company would then (a) notify the parents of the child's interest in registering at the site, and (b) obtain a parent's express consent. The order specifies several means by which the parent can transmit his/her consent, including a signed statement sent by mail or a credit card authorization. Under the proposed order, GeoCities would be required to notify its members and provide them with an opportunity to have their information deleted from GeoCities' and any third parties' databases. The settlement would require GeoCities to notify the parents of children 12 and under and to delete their information, unless a parent affirmatively consents to its retention and use. GeoCities also would be required to contact third parties to whom it previously disclosed the information and request that those parties delete that information as well. Finally, the settlement would require GeoCities to provide, for five years, a clear and prominent hyperlink within its Privacy Notice directing visitors to the FTC's Web site, http://www.ftc.gov, to view educational material on consumer privacy. Currently, the FTC site contains a brochure entitled: "Site-Seeing on the Internet." GeoCities also would be required to establish an information practices training program for its employees and volunteer community leaders. The Commission vote to publish the proposed consent agreement was 4-0. An analysis of the proposed agreement will appear in the Federal Register shortly. The agreement will be subject to public comment for 60 days, after which the Commission will decide whether to make it final. Comments should be addressed to the FTC, Office of the Secretary, 6th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20580. NOTE: A consent agreement is for settlement purposes only and does not constitute an admission of a law violation. When the Commission issues a consent order on a final basis, it carries the force of law with respect to future actions. Each violation of such an order may result in a civil penalty of $11,000. Copies of the complaint, the proposed consent order, the analysis of the proposed consent order to aid public comment, the brochure, "Site-Seeing on the Internet," as well as information, including Commission reports and testimony about its privacy initiative are available from the FTC's web site at http://www.ftc.gov and also from the FTC's Consumer Response Center, Room 130, 6th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C. 25080; 202-FTC-HELP (202-382-4357); TDD for the hearing impaired 202-326-2502. To find out the latest news as it is announced, call the FTC NewsPhone recording at 202-326-2710. MEDIA CONTACT: Victoria Streitfeld Office of Public Affairs 202-326-2718 STAFF CONTACT: Lee Peeler Bureau of Consumer Protection 202-326-3090 Joel Winston Bureau of Consumer Protection 202-326-3153 (FTC File No. 982 3015) "The joy in life is in its diversity and the ways in which our differences combine to create meaning and beauty." - Star Trek Maureen P. Gibbins e-mail: mgibbins@xxxxxx.sdsu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:45:06 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: TECH: Re: simegen.com web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Intriguing. I use Eudora for this e-mail address, and have my academic address that I give students set up in Netscape. I know the solution I suggested works for Eudora and for the old Music system (same as Pine, etc.). Obviously we do what we can, and after that we just stop worrying about it. At some point you have to let something go instead of letting it interfere with getting the work done. If no one has a solution that will work in Netscape, then we just have to hope viewers set their Netscape Mail frame wide enough to cope. Jean At 12:45 PM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Jean Lorrah wrote: > >> But if there isn't, you can set line length in standard HTML. Choose a >> fairly short length, such as 50 characters, and put a
at the end of >> each line. > >Unfortunately, that doesn't work, at least not in Netscape. >Email is sent with the line length of the viewer's browser, not >the line length in the HTML, which is discarded at an early stage. > >Bogus. > >-- >John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org > You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. > You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. > Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:27:41 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kaas Baichtal Subject: Re: TECH: WYSWYG HTML Editors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/14/98 12:01:12 PM CDT, cowan@xxxxxx.CCIL.ORG (John Cowan) writes: << What would you say if major automobile manufacturers were selling cars, at high prices too, which had brakes that only worked below 40 mph? You'd urge everyone you know to stay away from those cars at all costs, even the suicidal. It's bad for *everyone* if such "tools" are available. >> Ah... you're telling me what I'd say. As it happens, I don't believe that technology is inherently "good" or "bad", but that each piece of technology must be used in an appropriate manner. If one is choosing a tool for a transportation job that required accelerating to 70 MPH and then braking back to 0 again, the car you describe above would not be a good choice. However, there is no reason why the car could not be used in a situation where it was always to top out at, say, 25 MPH. It's not a question of raw ability, it's a question of suitability in the given circumstance. I wouldn't want to see either a golf cart or an Indy car on the freeway, but they are perfectly serviceable vehicles in their normal environments. It would be ridiculous to say that all cars are bad because, say, meter-maids' three-wheelers are not suitable for everybody's application. Similarly, IMHO, it is wrong to say that all WYSWYG HTML editors are bad. They may not be suited to your everyday needs, but that doesn't mean they don't serve others well. Plenty of people are not concerned by efficiency/bandwith, long-term knowledge of HTML, or how to FTP files. To a person who has just been broadsided by the entire Internet, doesn't know Java from Juno, and has to have a home page up by three days from now, a WYSWYG editor is just the thing. Now, if your argument (and here I am speaking to Jean) is that people should always grow and expand, seeking new and better ways of doing things, then I am all for that. However, I believe encouragement of that sort can be couched in terms that do not denigrate an entire class of utilities -- and even worse, belittle the people who have previously found use for them. There should be no shame in utilizing resources. --Kaas kaas@xxxxxx.com http://www.baichtal.com/kaas/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:37:52 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: TECH: WYSWYG HTML Editors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kaas Baichtal wrote: > Ah... you're telling me what I'd say. As it happens, I don't believe that > technology is inherently "good" or "bad", but that each piece of technology > must be used in an appropriate manner. Some pieces of technology have no excuse for being used at all. A hammer that always hits one's thumb must be trimmed: or if it cannot be, must be discarded. Sharp knives may cut, but irredeemably blunt ones are no use at all. > However, there is no reason why > the car could not be used in a situation where it was always to top out at, > say, 25 MPH. There can be no such guarantees. Failure to implement vital safety features is wrong, and people who use such dangerous tools, as well as those who manufacture them, are responsible for the harm they cause: but more so the manufacturers, who ought to have known better and whose plain duty is to do better. > Similarly, IMHO, it is wrong to say that all WYSWYG HTML editors are bad. I don't deny that good WYSIWYG HTML editors may be written. I have not seen any, myself; if I had, and the cost were not too high, I would gladly use such a thing. > To a > person who has just been broadsided by the entire Internet, doesn't know > Java from Juno, and has to have a home page up by three days from now, a > WYSWYG editor is just the thing. Learning a little HTML is the least of such a person's troubles. > There should be no shame in utilizing resources. Not if they do no harm. But bad HTML does do harm, because resources must be spent in handling it that could be put to better use. "The false use of language corrupts the mind." -- Socrates -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:29:27 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: TECH: Re: simegen.com web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Back to the black and white discussion. Marketing is the art of pleasing MOST of the people. There is no way we are ever going to please everyone on any subject. Before choosing the black background with the white writing I visited other sites in the same field (science fiction - movies and multi media) to see what the "fashion" was at this time. I was surprised to find that several of the sites could not be accessed without a plugin called "shockwave". This allows browsers to access Macromedia made sites - absolutely increadible special effects - with small resource needs too. However, I still feel that limiting viewing to people who have, or are willing to take the time to download a plugin is unsuitable. Outer Limits might get away with it (I think it was the outerlimites site that was using it - or Millenium?) but they already have a large following of fans who are willing to take the time. They aren't going to get new fans from the website, they get them from the tv series. So, macromedia was out. Another reason Macromedia was out is that there is just no way I can afford the products :( The same with the printing out. IE prints black text on a white background regardless of the colours of the page - I assume that a release of Netscape will eventually do this also (one of these days). As to people wanting to send email to their friends with the text on it - I would have thought it would be more suitable to do exactly what we do on this list "Hey! I found a great site! Go look at http://www.simegen.com" As I said, it isn't possible to please everyone, sometimes you have to look at what the majority use and go with that. I'm not in a hurry to make changes based on personal preference or unlikely scenerios. It may get done, just not in a hurry :) Hope this clears things up. By the way - concerning WYSIWYG - seems to me that both sides have pertinent points. Eliza Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:28:46 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Margaret Carter Subject: Re: Other cons? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << There has been some discussion of moving the annual S~G gathering from Darkover and the awkward Thanksgiving weekend to another convention but nothing definite has been decided. >> No-o-o-o! (Speaking from a self-centered perspective.) If it's at any other con, I'll miss it. Darkover is one of the only 2 cons every year I attend without fail, because it's close to home. And one reason I make it a don't- miss is because of JL's gathering. This is a nice little con, where people can have a good time without getting drowned in crowds and worrying about traipsing from hotel to hotel. Ugh, you wouldn't want to graft Faith Day onto one of those huge madhouse conventions, would you? (Even Shore Leave is too big for me; I don't think we'll make a habit of going.) Yes, Thanksgiving weekend is a goofy time to have a con -- ANY holiday weekend is, but con organizers keep doing it that way, apparently out of deliberate preference. At least on Thanksgiving weekend one doesn't have to miss the holiday ITSELF to attend the con. (Balticon on Easter -- aargh! I will never get to a Balticon, and one year I missed what's probably my only chance in a lifetime to see and hear Mercedes Lackey, because of this permanent date arrangement.) LL&P, Margaret ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:32:55 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: TECH: Norton Utility problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I sent the two posts about problems with Norton Utilities to a friend who is a computer technician. I knew that she always recommends NU, and that most of her business is setting up computers in offices where the users know how to run a spreadsheet, a word processor, and an e-mail program, and not much else. I took the names off the posts before I sent them. Here are the responses I got from someone who works with these problems every day: Cherri's problems: >Your correspondent didn't describe any symptoms I'm familiar with. There >are Norton problems that come when you have over 8 partitions (which I >do, but I figured a way around the problems.) Also, I ignore Norton's >idea that you should keep their stuff running constantly. I run their >image and ndd at boot. I don't let that system monitor run all the time. > It's not doing anything really useful, it eats RAM, and it puts up >irritating messages. I do let crash guard run all the time. About half >the time I think it's wrong, but the other half it saves my work. It >seems to hate ICQ so I have to close the alarm when it grumps about ICQ >and then reload ICQ. All in all, I like NDD and image, and think they >are the only parts of Norton worth running every day. I also like speed >disk, but I don't run that every day. And I like the antivirus program >because it's a lifetime of updates once you buy the program -- no annual >fees. And Sylvia's: >Your second norton customer can get a refund if she simply writes Norton >to say she wants one. She does not need to return the CD. In fact,that >will slow her refund. >She's getting those stupid alarms I told you about. I've got a 75 mhz >Pentium and they seem like they last forever. [My husband] has a 200 mhz Pentium >MMX and they go away on his.Anyway, Just drag that stoplight icon out of >the startup box and the alarms go away. Just be sure to set NDD and >Image to run every day at boot. >Norton 3 was written for the faster machines. And Antivirus 4 and now 5 >is only for the faster newer machines. I tried AV4 on mine and sent it >back. It slowed my computer intolerably. Norton knew about the problem >and didn't hesitate to take it back. Hope that helps someone! Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:32:56 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: TECH: WYSWYG HTML Editors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Kaas Baichtal wrote: > >> Jean... would it be possible for you to not slam WYSWYG programs and their >> users quite so much? As with any other tool, these utilities are only as >> good, or bad, as the person who is using them. And John Cowan responded: >I cannot agree with you. For passive tools, like a chisel, "only as >good or bad as the person using them" may be true. Active tools, >however, induce their own way of doing things, which may be a >disaster to the user or to others. > >What would you say if major automobile manufacturers were selling >cars, at high prices too, which had brakes that only worked below >40 mph? You'd urge everyone you know to stay away from those cars >at all costs, even the suicidal. It's bad for *everyone* if >such "tools" are available. Thank you, John. And of course I did not slam anybody. I use an HTML program myself, Hot Dog, when I have to do something like tables. _But_, I will continue to warn people not to become so dependent on technology that they cannot do without it. I can do tables by hand, but uurrrggghh, who wants to? Tweaking the code, though, is something else again. Everyone ought to be able to add, subtract, multiply, and divide without a calculator. No, I would not dream of balancing my checkbook without one, but I can tell if either what my checkbook says or the bill in a restaurant is absurdly wrong. Everyone should be able to cook with an ordinary stove if the microwave is out of order--or manage over a fire, if it comes to that. Everyone should grow a garden sometime, against the time when you may have to in order to be able to eat. Everyone should spell well enough that the spellchecker only has to point out one or two errors per page--and well enough to recognize and correct the word substitutions the spellchecker can't catch. And despite keyboards, everyone should still be able to write legibly by hand. Even people whose handwriting is as bad as mine! If you're going to drive a car, or ride in one with any frequency, you should be able to check all fluids, change a tire, safely jump start the battery, and do the simplest of repairs and maintenance. Do I do these things? I've done them all, so can again in an emergency, and yes, I check under the hood every time I put gas in the tank. HTML is just another example of the same principle, and especially because the basics are SO EASY, there is no reason not to know them. Even Jacqueline has learned them. Sure, she uses a program, but--gasp!--when the day before WorldCon the animation on simegen.com suddenly developed a white frame, a blue border, and stray characters in the margins, I actually witnessed her going into the source code to find the problem! Every discipline has its basics, and to say that if you are going to practice that discipline you should know certain basics is _not_ to slam any person or technology that makes it easier. It is merely to reiterate the truism that you cannot count on technology always to be there, or to work right when it is. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 20:15:03 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: TECH: Norton Utility problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just noticed in the current issue of EQUIP magazine, an add for Norton's Software suites, missing Norton Utilities. I wonder if this means they acknowledge its crap and stopped selling it? -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:11:03 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Joke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Q. What's the difference between a Sime and shopping trolly? A. Shopping trollies are harder to control Eliza Companion to Hajene Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 23:07:51 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Taking a Channel to Lunch MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I love reading the Chronicles of Eliza and Zoe. These are great! Especially the Lunch one...:) Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 13:42:14 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jenn Subject: Re: TECH: Re: simegen.com web site In-Reply-To: <35D469C2.303F8C32@xxxxxx.org> from "John Cowan" at Aug 14, 98 12:45:54 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Cowan wrote: > Jean Lorrah wrote: > > > But if there isn't, you can set line length in standard HTML. Choose a > > fairly short length, such as 50 characters, and put a
at the end of > > each line. > > Unfortunately, that doesn't work, at least not in Netscape. > Email is sent with the line length of the viewer's browser, not > the line length in the HTML, which is discarded at an early stage. > If we're still talking about printable and/or mailable files, we can do them in .txt formats, which browsers should be able to print and mailers read at reasonable line lengths. Jenn V, ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:41:56 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Hannah M.G. Shapero" Subject: Re: TECH: Re: simegen.com web site Comments: To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: <35D46B97.4BAF0630@xxxxxx.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Oh, *that's* easily done. Create trivial HTML, thus: > > Whatever > > This is plain text at whatever width you want
> except that every line ends with a BR tag
Yikes! Does this mean that HTML with all these extra verbal markings will appear in my PINE e-mail reader if such text would be forwarded to me? This does happen often as people with "sophisticated" e-mail programs which automatically compose in HTML attempt to mail e-mail to me. This either comes as "annotated" HTML such as in the message here, or as an unreadable "attachment." Or else it comes automatically as an "attachment" which takes a long time to view and which cannot be quoted back in e-mail. Please don't leave your slower and more primitive fans behind as you storm ahead into Webville. Yours, Hannah M.G.Shapero ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:48:29 +0100 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sheila Clark Subject: Re: TECH: Re: simegen.com web site In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 15 Aug, Hannah M.G. Shapero wrote: > > Oh, *that's* easily done. Create trivial HTML, thus: > > Whatever > > This > is plain text at whatever width you want > > except that every line ends with a BR tag > Yikes! Does this mean that HTML with all these extra verbal markings will > appear in my PINE e-mail reader if such text would be forwarded to me? I'm not particularly computer literate, and my machine isn't a PC, but I found that by clicking MENU on the message and then sliding along Display I get a 'remove tags' function; click on that and it removes all the BRs and wraps the line lengths to something far more readable. I can't believe that my machine (Acorn, which I think is a UK make probably not available anywhere else) is the only one that provides such a function. Sheila -- Sheila Clark Email sheilac@xxxxxx.co.uk Imagination is much more important than knowledge ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:10:05 -0600 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Edward Bornstein Subject: GOSS: Someone got the words just right :-) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Got this from my IRC friend BarbE >Got this on a mailing list.......thought you might all like it. > > >Every evening >laying here in bed >This little prayer running >through my head >God bless my mom and dad >and bless my little child >please take care of my spouse >when he's out on that long ride... > >There's just one tiny little thing >I hope that you can do >hope you don't mind me askin' >please bless my "puter" too? > >I know that it's not normal >to bless a mother board >but listen just a second >I'll explain it you you Lord > >You see, that little metal box >holds more than odds and ends. >Inside those small components >live hundreds of my 'Friends' > >Some it's true I've never seen >and most I've never met >we've never shaken hands >or shared a smile as yet... > >I know for sure they like me >by the kindnesses they give >and this little scrap of metal >is how I get to where they live. > >By faith is how I know them >much the same as I know you. >I share what life does bring them >from that our friendships grew > >Please take an extra minute >from your duties up above... >to bless this hunk of metal >that's filled with so much love. > > >"Author Unknown" > -- "We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech," - David Brin Captain Button - button@xxxxxx.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 05:23:31 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Other cons? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We had no idea that you had to purchase tickets that far in advance at all! Who has the ticket over there for sale and how much do they want for it? Zoe and I are (almost) DEFINATELY going, we just have to save harder is all. So if anyone has a ticket for sale at a price lower then they are quoting now please let us know! Eliza Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 07:59:30 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Questions from an 11 year old fan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm typing for my son Garth Can you zlin people on tv? Why don't they use electricity instead (as well as) selyn power? I think the books are great and really relistic. Garth Leahy PS (Eliza) oh no, my son wants tenticles. Anyone know where I can buy him some for Christmas? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 06:44:36 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Janice St. Clair" Subject: virus alert Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >>>Subject: Fw: VIRUS ALERT!!! >>> >>> >>>>VIRUS ALERT!!! >>>>This is a new twist. Someone is sending out a very desirable >>>>screen-saver - the Budweiser Frogs. But if you download it, >>>> you will lose everything!!! Your hard drive will crash!!! >>>> >>>> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! >>>> >>>> IT JUST WENT INTO CIRCULATION YESTERDAY, AS FAR AS WE KNOW .... >>>> BE CAREFUL. PLEASE DISTRIBUTE THIS TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE .. >>>>THANKS >>>> >>>> BELOW IS WHAT THE SCREENSAVER OFFER WOULD LOOK LIKE! >>>> >>>> File: BUDSAVER.EXE (24643 bytes) >>>> DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute >>>> >>>> If you download this, some jerk from the internet will get your >>>> screen name and password! Please send this to any names you can >think >>>> of and remember NEVER download BUDDYLST.ZIP >>>> >>>> >>>> This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know >>>> about it. This information was announced yesterday morning from= >> Microsoft. >>>> Please share it with everyone that might access the internet. >>>>Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so that >>>> this may be stopped. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:55:22 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Zoe Farris Subject: A new experience. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Well, I'm home again from my stay with Eliza and her family. As well as having lunch with a ravanous Gen, and going for a bushwalk in the rainforest, Eliza had me riding a horse. Friday afternoon was the first time in my life that i had ever been on a horse, and believe me it was an exhilarating feeling. I was as nervous as shen and I really thought i was going to come a cropper a few times but i didn't fall off and i was pretty pleased with myself. The next day I ventured out of Eliza's yard. Eliza rode her other horse, flossy, and I rode Trojun. We went into the rainforest for a while and then around to the pony club where I got a few quick lessons on horse control. And yes, the horse conrolled me very well thank you. There was a sence of freedom that I felt that is hard to explain, maybe other horse riders know what i had a taste of. I am now aware of muscles i never knew i owned, but it was worth it for the shear experience, and while she has Trojun, the only horse Eliza knows of that is good with newbies, I will have a few more rides yet. Next week Eliza's taking me to a medievil tuornement (sp), another new experience. Oh this is all too much fun. Stay Safe, Stay Strong. Zoe Farris. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:03:09 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Questions from an 11 year old fan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:59 AM 8/16/98 +1000, Eliza wrote: >I'm typing for my son Garth > >Can you zlin people on tv? No, not on tv as we know it, which will be the inspiration for the first S~G tv. Sometime later, the ability to transmit nageric indications will be developed, but even then only for special situations--the way today you can only pick up closed captioning, stereo sound, or the second language channel being broadcast if you have the right equipment and have it turned on. Why? Well, just imagine the S~G equivalent of the shower scene from _Psycho_ playing with full nageric accompaniment, on a bank of tv's in an in-T department store crowded with a variety of Simes and Gens! >Why don't they use electricity instead (as well as) selyn power? They do, especially hydroelectric power. The selyn-powered train in UNTO was conspicuous consumption during a particular time when the Tecton was showing off what could be done with the new selyn powered technology. My guess is that within a couple of generations that train was converted to standard electricity or some other form of power that did not either waste selyn or sicken Simes riding on it. There could only be the profligate use of selyn shown during Digen's lifetime during...Digen's lifetime! His life happened to span the period during which the Tecton courted Gens by offering both safety and better quality of life, and Gens still outnumbered Simes probably something like four or five to one. As the world population approached 50/50, there was simply not enough selyn to use it for heavy-work things like trains. (The population will never achieve equilibrium because Gens, like women, are inherently stronger than Simes, who are like men--it will probably settle at something like a 55% Gen 45% Sime ratio.) Lamps, navigational instruments, and similar technology are too useful to lose, though, once it has been invented--those items will be made more efficient when the selyn supply dwindles, just as automobiles were made more efficient when petroleum supplies began to dwindle. At least selyn is an infinitely renewable resource! >I think the books are great and really relistic. Thank you. We work hard to make them feel that way. >Garth Leahy > >PS (Eliza) oh no, my son wants tenticles. Anyone know where I can buy him >some for Christmas? Not yet, but perhaps one day Mattel or Fisher-Price will make them. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:30:30 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: A new experience. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Next week Eliza's taking me to a medievil tuornement (sp), another new > experience. Oh this is all too much fun. Oh? SCA perchance? -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 09:42:45 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: Re: Questions from an 11 year old fan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'm typing for my son Garth > >Can you zlin people on tv? No, because they're not really present. But that wouldn't prevent Simes from imagining the nagers when they watch a show, just as you imagine the appearence and voices of characters when you read a book. Imagination is a wonderfull thing. > >Why don't they use electricity instead (as well as) selyn power? > I had assumed that they would use both. In my Clear Springs stories, the town's electric grid has recently switched from coal and wind to a selyn-powered generator, for economic reasons. Of course, some machines would use selyn directly. >I think the books are great and really relistic. > >Garth Leahy > >PS (Eliza) oh no, my son wants tenticles. Anyone know where I can buy him >some for Christmas? Um... Cherri made herself a very realistic set of tentacles. She might be willing to share a pattern. And Kaas's "Portrait of the Artist as a Sime" shows what can be done with a photo and a good art program. Mary Lou ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:00:59 -0800 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Mary Lou Mendum Subject: GOSS: big changes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Folks, As some of you may have heard through the IRC chat grapevine, I have quit my job at Sonoma-Cutrer Vineyards and will shortly be moving back to Davis to work at the University. I will have a Univeristy email account as of mid-September at mlmendum@xxxxxx.edu. I haven't yet determined whether I will use the free account for all my Internet access, or get a private account as well. Mostly, it depends on how crowded the modem bank is these days. Either way, though, I will be reachable at the above address. I will be completely out of touch from the 19th through the 29th; I'm taking advantage of my temporary unemployment to go salmon fishing in Canada with my finacee and future inlaws. There will be another week or two of sporadic contact following while I actually move and get set up in the new apartment. So, please be patient if you don't hear from me for a while. Mary Lou ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:27:27 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: Questions from an 11 year old fan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > No, because they're not really present. But that wouldn't prevent Simes > from imagining the nagers when they watch a show, just as you imagine the > appearence and voices of characters when you read a book. Imagination is a > wonderfull thing. What about "Nagervision"? Hell, we have stranger stuff now, like Smellovision and Scratch-n-sniff..:) -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:21:16 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: K. Litman -- Not again!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It seems my back just went out again. I felt something move in the same area where it was injured before, and now I'm in a lot of trouble. I managed to reach the orthopaedic doctor (who prescribed the water therapy last time) but I can't see him until tomorrow at the earliest. Haven't been able to reach my regular doctor who is out of town. It's not as bad as the first time (yet) but I don't know what he will plan for me. Will let you know what the doctor says. For my role playing and Instant Message friends --- please be understanding. I don't dare sit at the computer for long periods of time. I hope to do e-mail if my back permits it. As always, Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:33:59 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: K. Litman -- Not again!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit awwwwww Hugs Karen. So sorry to hear that. Sniffle. We'll miss Serena in roleplaying, and Jeru;) but you just take care of that back Cheryl Wolverton This SIde of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 -----Original Message----- From: Karen Litman To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Sunday, August 16, 1998 11:23 AM Subject: K. Litman -- Not again!!! > It seems my back just went out again. I felt something move in the >same area where it was injured before, and now I'm in a lot of trouble. > I managed to reach the orthopaedic doctor (who prescribed the >water therapy last time) but I can't see him until tomorrow at the earliest. >Haven't been able to reach my regular doctor who is out of town. > It's not as bad as the first time (yet) but I don't know what he >will plan for me. Will let you know what the doctor says. > For my role playing and Instant Message friends --- please be >understanding. I don't dare sit at the computer for long periods of time. I >hope to do e-mail if my back permits it. As always, Karen Litman > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:34:33 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: K. Litman -- Not again!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > For my role playing and Instant Message friends --- please be > understanding. I don't dare sit at the computer for long periods of time. I > hope to do e-mail if my back permits it. As always, Karen Litman > I totally understand about that, even without an injury my back hurts like heck after 30 min at the computer. -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:27:28 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: GOSS: big changes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'd like to wish MLM a hearty congratulations on both the new job and the engagment! Big steps to take - both of them! I hope that you and your finacee will be very happy. I also hope that you catch a lot of fish. Don't forget - we want photos of all you catch! (including your finacee.....) :) Eliza At 10:00 16/08/98 -0800, you wrote: >Folks, > >As some of you may have heard through the IRC chat grapevine, I have quit >my job at Sonoma-Cutrer Vineyards and will shortly be moving back to Davis >to work at the University. I will have a Univeristy email account as of >mid-September at mlmendum@xxxxxx.edu. I haven't yet determined whether I >will use the free account for all my Internet access, or get a private >account as well. Mostly, it depends on how crowded the modem bank is these >days. Either way, though, I will be reachable at the above address. > >I will be completely out of touch from the 19th through the 29th; I'm >taking advantage of my temporary unemployment to go salmon fishing in >Canada with my finacee and future inlaws. There will be another week or >two of sporadic contact following while I actually move and get set up in >the new apartment. So, please be patient if you don't hear from me for a >while. > >Mary Lou > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:44:55 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: A new experience. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 22:55 16/08/98 +1000, you wrote: > >Well, I'm home again from my stay with Eliza and her family. As well as >having lunch with a ravanous Gen, and going for a bushwalk in the >rainforest, Eliza had me riding a horse. > >Next week Eliza's taking me to a medievil tuornement (sp), another new >experience. Oh this is all too much fun. > There will be photos available as soon as they are developed! Eliza Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:27:18 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: K. Litman -- Not again!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Aw, Karen--I am so sorry to hear that you are having back problems again. I know it seems like a ridiculous expense, but you really do _need_ a notebook computer. I have been writing while flat on my back since the first clamshells became available. Now I do e-mail, webmastering, everything else, in that position. Bad backs just get worse as the years pass. I would not be physically capable of writing today if I had to spend 5-6 hours per day sitting up at a desktop. And my problems are not nearly as bad as Karen's. Anybody with a notebook computer, when you are ready to upgrade, please be sure to think of Karen for the one you are using now. Meanwhile, Karen, we're all thinking of you and hoping that you will be out of pain quickly. Jean At 02:21 PM 8/16/98 EDT, Karen wrote: > It seems my back just went out again. I felt something move in the >same area where it was injured before, and now I'm in a lot of trouble. > I managed to reach the orthopaedic doctor (who prescribed the >water therapy last time) but I can't see him until tomorrow at the earliest. >Haven't been able to reach my regular doctor who is out of town. > It's not as bad as the first time (yet) but I don't know what he >will plan for me. Will let you know what the doctor says. > For my role playing and Instant Message friends --- please be >understanding. I don't dare sit at the computer for long periods of time. I >hope to do e-mail if my back permits it. As always, Karen Litman > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu Ever stop to think and forget to start again? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:13:10 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: K. Litman -- Not again!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Jean Wrote: Aw, Karen--I am so sorry to hear that you are having back problems again. I know it seems like a ridiculous expense, but you really do _need_ a notebook computer. I have been writing while flat on my back since the first clamshells became available. Now I do e-mail, webmastering, everything else, in that position. Bad backs just get worse as the years pass. I would not be physically capable of writing today if I had to spend 5-6 hours per day sitting up at a desktop. And my problems are not nearly as bad as Karen's. Anybody with a notebook computer, when you are ready to upgrade, please be sure to think of Karen for the one you are using now. Meanwhile, Karen, we're all thinking of you and hoping that you will be out of pain quickly. Jean ----------------- Dear Jean, (and everyone who has contacted me since my latest back problem.....) Thank you so much for your understanding and concern. Right now, a laptop computer is out of the question financially, unless I get put on the "recycled computers" list as Jean suggested. My greatest concern of the moment is to get to the doctor tomorrow and start new treatment. I've been doing exercises for my back on land -- unfortunately they should be done in a pool. The other concerns are whether or not I will still have a job, _and_ the fate of my riding lessons...not to mention if it is practical to keep my horse rather than use one at the Center ----- but it's not an issue we need to investigate immediately. The pain is not as great as the original injury, and for now I am taking prescription Naproxen (500 mg) left over from the last back experience. I will keep everyone informed of what will be happening with me. Again, thanks each of you for your advice and concern. As always, Karen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 19:36:48 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: JOKE: Only in America Comments: To: helen.roulston@xxxxxx.edu, rallen@xxxxxx.EdU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>Only in America...can a pizza get to your house faster than an ambulance... >> >>Only in America...are there handicap parking places in front of a skating rink... >> >>Only in America...do people order double cheese burgers, large fries, and a diet coke... >> >>Only in America...do banks leave both doors open and then chain the pens to the counters... >> >>Only in America...do we leave cars worth thousands of dollars in the >driveway and leave useless things and junk in boxes in the garage... >> >>Only in America...do we use answering machines to screen calls and then have call waiting so we won't miss a call from someone we didn't want to talk to in the first place... >> >>Only in America...do we buy hot dogs in packages of ten and buns in >packages of eight... >> >>Only in America...do we use the word "politics" to describe the process so well: "Poli" in Latin meaning "many" and "tics" meaning "bloodsucking >>creatures"... >> Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:11:23 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kaas Baichtal Subject: Laptop Computer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << Anybody with a notebook computer, when you are ready to upgrade, please be sure to think of Karen for the one you are using now. >> Karen, The laptop computer you turned down last year is available again. It isn't great for surfing but it works just fine for email and IRC. --Kaas kaas@xxxxxx.com http://www.baichtal.com/kaas/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:56:15 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jenn Subject: Re: Questions from an 11 year old fan In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980816150309.006de0d8@xxxxxx.edu> from "Jean Lorrah" at Aug 16, 98 10:03:09 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > At 07:59 AM 8/16/98 +1000, Eliza wrote: > > > >PS (Eliza) oh no, my son wants tenticles. Anyone know where I can buy him > >some for Christmas? Eliza, Brisbane White Pages: Fantasies. Carly & Christina are friends of mine & costumers, and Carly's been working on the 'tentacles' problem since I started writing the RPG. She's got several designs in her head, though none yet on paper or fabric. I have /no/ idea what she'll charge but I /am/ sure she'll be able to make something up for him. Jenn V. (Melbourne is /COLD/. But very pretty, & I'm able to be useful. It's fun.) (Oh, and Gossie is just as wonderful in person as she is over the net!) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 01:23:34 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Questions from an 11 year old fan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Brisbane White Pages: Fantasies. Carly & Christina are friends of mine & costumers, and Carly's been working on the 'tentacles' problem since I started writing the RPG. NO no no. thank you for all your ideas, but he doesn't want a costume, he wants real tenticles. He is looking forward to change over and wants to know if I'll be giving him first transfer. lol (no, he isn't mad, just hopeful) >(Melbourne is /COLD/. But very pretty, & I'm able to be useful. It's fun.) >(Oh, and Gossie is just as wonderful in person as she is over the net!) I didn't know you two hadn't met in person! That's great! Give her my love :) Eliza ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 00:41:32 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Anne Pinzow Subject: Fwd: Doctors Debate Hand Transplants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_903328893_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_903328893_boundary Content-ID: <0_903328893@xxxxxx.m.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_903328893_boundary Content-ID: <0_903328893@xxxxxx.m.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: AOLNews@xxxxxx.com Return-path: Subject: Doctors Debate Hand Transplants Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:06:21 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Doctors Debate Hand Transplants .c The Associated Press By STEVE BAILEY LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) -- It sounds like something right out of a campy, late- night horror film: eager doctors working to attach the hand of a cadaver to the arm of a living person. But a team of Louisville surgeons says the procedure could be performed by year's end. Members of the team claimed that the experimental surgery would be a medical breakthrough equal to the world's first heart and liver transplants. If successful, they said, the operation could initiate a new era of transplantation with the potential to restore hope to thousands of people with congenital defects and disfiguring injuries. A historic achievement? Possibly. But some hand surgeons and transplant experts were startled by the announcement last month, concerned that science has yet to evolve to the point where the projected rewards from such a project exceed the inherent risks. ``I don't think the level of scientific research in this area in small and large animals allows us to move into the realm of human application,'' said Neil Jones, an orthopedic surgeon and director of the UCLA Hand Center. ``There are simply too many problems that haven't been solved in the prevention of tissue rejection. I think the press conference was more publicity than anything else and that they're jumping the gun on this.'' Clinically, doctors say, microsurgical techniques are available to transplant a human hand from a deceased donor to a living recipient. Ethically, however, the issue is more murky. ``It's very, very risky and the ethical concerns are enormous,'' said Matthew Tomaino, chief of microsurgery for the University of Pittsburgh's orthopedic surgery department. ``To this point, the potential for death or serious complication have not warranted the transplant of a nonvital organ.'' Following any transplant operation, the recipient must take drugs that suppress the immune system. The anti-rejection drugs are meant to keep the body from trying to destroy the foreign tissue, but they also increase the risk of infection, cancer and even death. Unlike a patient needing a new heart or liver who would likely die without a transplant and the anti-rejection drugs to sustain it, an amputee does not lack a vital organ. However, the hand patient still would be forced to take the potentially fatal drugs. ``This situation certainly presents some interesting ethical questions,'' said Linda Emanuel, head of the American Medical Association's Institute on Ethics. ``The big question appears to be quality of life versus quantity of life. Does the potential benefit of having the procedure done justify the chance of death or serious illness that comes with it?'' Members of the transplant team say animal research has shown that giving a variety of different anti-rejection drugs at very low doses can keep rejection complications to a minimum. ``Any medical procedure -- any drug -- does carry risks, including the risk of life,'' said Jon Jones, a University of Louisville transplant surgeon. ``But people now do very well with transplantations because we've learned a lot about how to handle immunotherapy. ``Based on the positive results of our animal research, we feel we are now ready to do the first clinical case.'' Not all in the medical community believe the rejection problems have been sufficiently addressed. For example, attempts to transplant skin in animals have met with little success -- most have been rejected within a year, Jones said. Anne Ouellette, a hand surgeon and professor of orthopedic surgery at the University of Miami, said skin rejection, along with nerve regeneration to allow sensation, would be the key problems facing the Louisville surgical team. ``We talked about this 10 years ago, but I'm still not ready to attempt this,'' Ouellette said. ``Until I hear we can keep the skin from rejecting, shriveling up and dying, I'm ignoring any kind of procedure of this nature. Once that happens, I'm back in the game.'' Ouellette did not condemn the Louisville surgeons for attempting an experimental procedure. ``Somebody's got to make the leap, whether it's now or 10 years from now,'' Ouellette said. ``The same kind of concerns were raised when the first heart was done 30 years ago. The guys in Louisville are superb and I don't blame them for trying. ``But ... the risks are there. Significant risks. All of those along with every detail of the procedure has to be discussed with the patient up front. As long as everyone is up-front and honest with each other from the very start, I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing.'' Brandi Clark of San Andreas, Calif., is interested in the progress made by the Louisville doctors. Her 6-month-old daughter, Jara, was born without a hand. ``If they start a waiting list, I want her on it,'' she said. ``If there are risks, she could make that decision when she's old enough.'' Warren Breidenbach, a University of Louisville assistant professor of surgery who will perform the actual hand transplant, said technical and ethical concerns have been debated for nearly two years as the group sought to have its research validated. The University of Louisville School of Medicine Human Studies Committee and Louisville's Jewish Hospital Institutional Review Board granted their approval this summer for the procedure after studying the team's data, which included the results of an international symposium. ``We've presented our information to several national and international organizations, and I can tell you that the majority have been in favor of what we're doing,'' Breidenbach said. ``We're not rushing into anything. ``There is a new concept behind how we're approaching this. In the old concept, you would think of something, do it and then report it -- maybe. ``We're making this a very transparent process for both the medical community and the public. We've done the research, we've done the animal studies and we've put the information up for review all in a very public way before ever attempting a clinical case. ``We also plan to identify a patient advocate who will ... make sure that our enthusiasm doesn't overwhelm the ability of the patient to raise pertinent, aggressive and poignant questions and concerns.'' Ouellette said no matter what the outcome, actually performing a hand transplant likely would ignite more technical and emotional debate. ``Personally, I believe they're going to lose the first (hands) and it's going to be the skin rejection that backs them up,'' she said. ``But they're going to learn so much ... and that's part of the process of medical advancement.'' AP-NY-08-16-98 1202EDT Copyright 1998 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press. To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News. --part0_903328893_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 03:09:55 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Donna Halper Subject: Re: Laptop Computer In-Reply-To: <000701bdc97b$f4ed6180$7904cc98@xxxxxx.sky> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have a 486 laptop I am looking to sell-- in excellent condition, but it only displays in black and white... oh, it does have a modem, and I have even received data over hotel phone lines with it. It has done the job for me for five years, and now I have up-graded to a pentium with colour, and would hate to see this perfectly good laptop continue to sit here being lonely. Make me an offer for it. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:41:26 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Larry P Ulrey Comments: To: simegen-l@xxxxxx.com Due to a broken radiator hose on my van, Leigh's going to be a little late getting back home. She should be back tommorow. Larry Ulrey _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:26:16 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: John Cowan Organization: Lojban Peripheral Subject: Re: Fwd: Doctors Debate Hand Transplants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anne Pinzow posted: > Brandi Clark of San Andreas, Calif., is interested in the progress > made by the Louisville doctors. Her 6-month-old daughter, Jara, was > born without a hand. > ``If they start a waiting list, I want her on it,'' she said. > ``If there are risks, she could make that decision when she's old > enough.'' I can't believe, based on the experiences of the thalidomide babies, that anyone born without a hand would have the necessary brain wiring to be able to use a transplanted hand. (Thalidomide babies who have arms but not legs, or vice versa, can't use prosthetics despite years of trying: their legs *are* arms (or vice versa)). -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@xxxxxx.org You tollerday donsk? N. You tolkatiff scowegian? Nn. You spigotty anglease? Nnn. You phonio saxo? Nnnn. Clear all so! 'Tis a Jute.... (Finnegans Wake 16.5) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:17:30 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: I've entered all the data that collected since my last report (I think about a month or 6 weeks?), and we now have an official 199 members of the Founding 400. However, I have 4 entries here that I can't enter yet because I'm unclear on the form drop that labels the email FOUNDATION 400, so I'm not sure what these folks are signing up for. Plus I haven't done email since last Thursday, nor has the POB 290 mail been collected recently. However, ideas are flooding into my head for how to tackle this novel, and I expect to start writing it in February '99 when the Villain contest is officially over and I'll know what his/her name is. I might start sooner just because I can hardly wait. Oh, this will be a good story! I've got half the Index work done on the Wands book, and then I've got to final draft the Cups book that I finished a few weeks ago, and I owe a couple of Columns that I'll have to do next week -- plenty of material, but little time. Meanwhile, work is continuing at a dizzying pace on getting together the deal for the reprint of the 8 extant Novels. Lots of phone calls regarding cover design -- which is inextricably linked to both the low-budget for this project AND a marketing decision concerning which of the many available "conduits" of the fiction market will be used for this reprint. For those new to this List, "conduit" is a term I used in a whole thread on the Workshop and in part on the List to describe how the fiction delivery system worked in the '80's, and to discuss how it's changed already in the '90's and the direction of the change in the next decade -- and what we, as denizens of cyberspace can do to affect the development of the fiction delivery system in the next twenty years. The publisher, The Bradford Press, seems to be aiming this reprint into a direction that my books have never been aimed in before -- we are breaking new ground here. So they don't want the standard SF-look covers this time. Also, a question has been raised that perhaps you on the List might contribute answers to. The editors there have asked me to add material to the novels that would make it worth YOUR while to buy new copies of the books -- at least those of you who wouldn't be buying them anyway to replace the crumbling old copies you have. So what would you -- who have access to the websites and fanzine materials -- think would add value to a reprint of these novels? Do you want additional interior artwork? If so, by which artists? Articles about the Tarot and Astrological background underlying the novels? Additional short stories set before or after the events in the novel -- or perhaps elsewhere during the novel's events? How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? (give prices as a range) And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, how long are you willing to wait for minor additions? We could have reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, we're talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint program. Additionally, there are negotiations in progress that will result in all these novels being made available on the web for FREE READING. No telling how LONG they would continue to be posted to the Web, but they'd be there for free. They'd be hard to download and print, but not impossible. Given that the material would be there for free, would you STILL buy the book? Those who don't want to buy new copies of these novels -- how would you feel about there being additional material added to the novel reprints that you would have to pay TOO MUCH to get, but can't have any other way. Artwork, additional short-stories, whatever -- you'd be paying too much if you didn't want the novels themselves but just the added material. Personally, I lean toward a simple, straight reprint, perhaps with some interior art as the budget might allow, but get the books out there as quickly and cheaply as possible. But I don't have the final say on this -- so let's hear your opinions. ALERT: Those who have been NOMAIL recently, and those new to this list in the last few weeks. The List will be migrating from the SIU.EDU eddress to the simegen.com eddress very soon now. If you have been NOMAIL or are NEW, it's possible the new server doesn't have your eddress on file and you'll have to subscribe by hand once the SIU.EDU list stops. You'll find instructions for that on http://www.simegen.com/contacts.html At this time, the instruction there still goes to SIU.EDU . You can enter the NAME THE VILLAIN contest using the form-drop on www.simegen.com/base.html Live Long and Prosper, Jacqueline Lichtenberg S~G LISTSERV MOVING TO SIMEGEN.COM - SEE www.simegen.com/contacts for info. THE BIBLICAL TAROT:"Never Cross A Palm With Silver" is now in Barnes&Noble and at amazon.com. The second of the 6 books, "The Magic of the Wands" is in production, "Cups Half Full or Half Empty" is complete in first draft. Connect to the Sime~Gen Webring at http://www.simegen.com/ and find out how to get the next new Sime~Gen novel and new reprints. I reserve the right to repost any comment that comes to me that is NOT MARKED DNQ or in some way obviously personal. My SF Review Column is posted monthly at http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian Join the Sime~Gen Listserve, surf the 23 website Virtual Tecton Sign up for the free Email S~G Newsletter (a few pages, twice a month max)at http://www.tertius.net.au/simegen/signup/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 09:52:15 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion JL asks: > > So what would you -- who have access to the websites and fanzine materials -- think would add value to a reprint of these novels? > Here are my thoughts on things that would make the novels more exciting for me: - pronunciation keys for common S~G words (I have pronounced it SELlin for nigh onto 20 years, and I canNOT get my mind around pronouncing it selLINE, even if JL says so!) :) - Maps! - Background info from JL about how the S~G world came to be, what influenced her to invent the universe, and what inspired the various characters and events - Interior artwork would be nice, but I wouldn't care either way. - Short stories would be great! > Do you want additional interior artwork? If so, by which artists? Articles about the Tarot and Astrological background underlying > the novels? Additional short stories set before or after the events in the novel -- or perhaps elsewhere during the novel's events? > I for one would be turned off by too much Astrological and Tarot stuff, but that's just because I'm firmly in the "I don't care about that stuff--just give me more stories!" camp. > How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how > much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? (give prices as a range) > Trade PB: up to $20. Regular PB: up to about $7. > And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, how long are you willing to wait for minor additions? We could > have reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, we're talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint > program. > I've waited this long...I'll keep waiting. The value-added stuff will cause me to buy the new editions, whereas straight reprints (with no additional material) probably would not. > Additionally, there are negotiations in progress that will result in all these novels being made available on the web for FREE > READING. No telling how LONG they would continue to be posted to the Web, but they'd be there for free. They'd be hard to download > and print, but not impossible. Given that the material would be there for free, would you STILL buy the book? > I'd probably buy the book and ignore the web stuff. I'd much rather read stuff in a book than online (I'm too lazy and paper- cheap to print it out anyway). With nice presentation (pics, good design, etc.) I'd look at the web stuff, but not read it. > Those who don't want to buy new copies of these novels -- how would you feel about there being additional material added to the > novel reprints that you would have to pay TOO MUCH to get, but can't have any other way. Artwork, additional short-stories, > whatever -- you'd be paying too much if you didn't want the novels themselves but just the added material. > Like I said, I'd pay for the new stuff, but not for the straight reprints. My two dynopters, --Robyn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 13:58:50 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jacqueline Lichtenberg Subject: Fw: B5 Questions You Asked Me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: Below is a reply I got from Karen S. Hayes to questions she had asked me after the panel I did at Worldcon on B5. I gave my usual spiel about how much I love B5 BUT I have this little philosophical problem with it, and here's how I'd fix it. I said I'd go from the most recent movie and develop the folks on the other side of the rift. I think the panel was taped, and you can order the tapes -- go to the Worldcon website. I think they'll have the tape order form available. Afterwards, this lady who is writing an article for the B5 magazine handed me her card with two questions on the back and asked me to email her the answers. I did a couple days ago, and here's her reply. JL >Dear Jacqueline, > >Thank you! This is a huge amount of wonderful, thoughtful material. You've >not only more than answered my questions for B5 magazine, you've also pointed >me to some Web resources I wasn't aware of, that may help with some other SF >projects I've got coming. Thank you so much for taking the time. > >Any material the editors decide to use will be in the "Sleeping in Light" >issue, which will be coming out in November to coincide with the broadcast of >the final episodes of the series. > >Karen S. Hayes > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:09:02 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Margaret Carter Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On adding materials to new editions of the novels: << - pronunciation keys for common S~G words (I have pronounced it SELlin for nigh onto 20 years, and I canNOT get my mind around pronouncing it selLINE, even if JL says so!) :) - Maps! - Background info from JL about how the S~G world came to be, what influenced her to invent the universe, and what inspired the various characters and events - Interior artwork would be nice, but I wouldn't care either way. - Short stories would be great! >> All these would be wonderful -- what would esp. attract me would be background material and new short stories (yes!). Maps would be a big help too. I too would be willing to wait a little longer for reprints with new material added. Since my copies of the paperbacks are in good shape, I wouldn't buy straight reprints either. LL&P, Margaret ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:41:23 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: K Litman -- update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The doctor is calling it a "flare up" of the original injury. Thankfully, not as bad as it was last year. So back to the aquatic therapy, and off the horse for a month. He's got me on Naproxen (prescription 500 mg) twice a day and that's about all. I can't walk without my crutches at all, but I'm not in a lot of pain, and I drove myself to the doctor. I'm to see him in a month. Unfortunately, he says this is something to expect periodically for the rest of my life ----- DAMN! Love to you and Hart, Karen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:44:06 -0400 Reply-To: dthompson@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robert & Deborah Thompson Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > we are breaking new ground here. So they don't want the standard SF-look covers this time. How about embossed paper (for trade paperback size) that looks like old hide covered book (cheaper on illustrator, not sure about embossing costs) > So what would you -- who have access to the websites and fanzine materials -- think would add value to a reprint of these novels? I agree with Robyn King-Nitschke, 1. pronunciation 2. maps 3. character and household index, 4. time line 5. additional stories not in print on paper (like Cheryl's) 6. background essay 7. Definitely on Good Paper!!! 8. artwork > How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? $15 US, maybe $20 if good quality > And how much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? (give prices as a range) This stuff's too good not to make it last for a while! > And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, how long are you willing to wait for minor additions? We could > have reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, we're talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint > program. You're only talking 1 - 1 1/2 years longer - hey, we're going back to print _at all_! Make it count! > Additionally, there are negotiations in progress that will result in all these novels being made available on the web for FREE > READING. No telling how LONG they would continue to be posted to the Web, but they'd be there for free. They'd be hard to download > and print, but not impossible. Given that the material would be there for free, would you STILL buy the book? I don't know about anybody else that's tried to read any lengthy piece of fiction on the web, but I'd rather curl up with a book anyday. Printouts are big (8 1/2 X 11), and sitting at the monitor is tiring. And unless you're reading on a laptop, you're really confined about where you can enjoy your book. Some people might read online, but I don't think it will hurt the book sales much. Actually might enhance them, people get a taste online then go buy the book. > Those who don't want to buy new copies of these novels -- how would you feel about there being additional material added to the > novel reprints that you would have to pay TOO MUCH to get, but can't have any other way. Artwork, additional short-stories, > whatever -- you'd be paying too much if you didn't want the novels themselves but just the added material. > Live Long and Prosper, > Jacqueline Lichtenberg Maybe you could sell the idea of an additional volume, like "A Companion to Zeor" :) that has the artwork, possibly a campy article on the old artwork, extra articles, etc. depending on demand, as a followup to the newly published series. Just a thought. Also, though I love reading Tarot (and have done so for about 15 years now) I don't think the "soft sciences" are really appropriate fare - people start getting nervous when the boundaries of fantasy and reality are jiggled too strenuously. Fantasy people can intellectually accept the given "universe" (Zeor, Psi Corps, etc.) but are often unnerved when they are expected to participate. If you read about the tortures of the Inquisition, you probably don't want a how-to manual on torture in the same book (to use an extreme example on the other side of the Force). Those who want to know more can explore further through a bibliography, and you won't get censored by people who become easily frightened (but have a nasty way of driving off sales). I'm excited about a reprint, but I'm really hoping for quality paper. I don't know how many books 20-30 years old I have that are deteriorating into illegibility because the paper is so yellow and crumbly, and the book is irreplacable or out-of-print. I love the Zeor universe! So please consider good papers and inks! -Deborah Thompson "First impressions are important, but appearances can be deceiving." -my hubby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:05:53 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cindy Leonard-Krinsky Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I would like to add my thoughts to Robyn's reply: ---Robyn King-Nitschke wrote: > JL asks: > > So what would you -- who have access to the websites and fanzine materials -- think would add value to a reprint of these novels? > > Here are my thoughts on things that would make the novels > more exciting for me: > - pronunciation keys for common S~G words (I have pronounced > it SELlin for nigh onto 20 years, and I canNOT get my mind > around pronouncing it selLINE, even if JL says so!) :) Yes, I so agree. I have been pronouncing it that way too! > - Maps! Definitely yes. I am really a picture/diagram person, must be my engineering background. > - Background info from JL about how the S~G world came to be, > what influenced her to invent the universe, and what inspired > the various characters and events I would sure like this also. > - Interior artwork would be nice, but I wouldn't care either > way. Same here. > - Short stories would be great! Yes! > I for one would be turned off by too much Astrological and Tarot > stuff, but that's just because I'm firmly in the "I don't care > about that stuff--just give me more stories!" camp. I could go either way with the Astrological and Tarot stuff. > > How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how > > much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? (give prices as a range) > > Trade PB: up to $20. > Regular PB: up to about $7. Sounds good to me, although I would prefer a Trade PB to be in the $10 to $15 range. > > And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, how long are you willing to wait for minor additions? We could > > have reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, we're talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint > > program. > > I've waited this long...I'll keep waiting. The value-added > stuff will cause me to buy the new editions, whereas straight > reprints (with no additional material) probably would not. Ditto! Hope this wasn't too long, Cindy _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @xxxxxx.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:22:31 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Important Notice from America Online's Staff. Comments: To: ARCH206@xxxxxx.com, JennieD80@xxxxxx.com, FORPATENT@xxxxxx.com, Mervyn48@xxxxxx.com, CWELLS@xxxxxx.com Comments: cc: Whelan3714@xxxxxx.com, SnoBoard80@xxxxxx.com, EMillernv@xxxxxx.com, RAdams8080@xxxxxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear America Online and Instant Message users, Our America Online staff is planning to take away our Instant messages by September 14,1998. If you want to keep your Instant Messages free of charge,send this mail to everyone you know. It will be used as a petition. Each person you send this to, counts as one"signature." If this petition gets 1,000 "signatures," our Instant Messages will still be avaliable at no extra charge. If America Online does not recieve 1,000 "signatures," Instant Messages will still be avaliable, but only to those who pay an extra 15.00 dollars a month. If you do not care about not getting any future Instant Messages, please send this for the sake of those who want to keep thier Instant Messages free of charge. Thank you for your time and consideration. Robert McDoggan America Online Assistance Director ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:49:01 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion In-Reply-To: <001e01bdc9fc$39466c20$307a5ed1@xxxxxx.ter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" IMVHO >Do you want additional interior artwork? If so, by which artists? Interior? Probably not. This will add costs to the book. A reader wants to read. >Articles about the Tarot and Astrological background underlying the novels? Definitely NOT! Referring to Tarot and Astrological references is going to scare off too many new people. Don't mix books. Mahogany TrinRose was fine only because you were dealing with Gypsys and the pull of the moon. Farmers sometimes plant by the position of the moon and most people have heard of this therefore it was acceptable to the reader. However, there are many people on this list who do not like MT for these concepts you are presenting. I, personally, loved the book but when you started talking about the Tarot as the background to the book, I was totally turned off by it. I have since dealt with this only by closing my mind to the concept so that I can continue to enjoy this book. In addition, it is my very humble opinion (MVHO) that you are going to lose a large section of people who are a part of a religious community. I know that you are religious and you know that I am not but I've talk to people behind the scenes and more than one are truly concerned by your concepts of Sime~Gen and the Tarot. Why ruin a great universe by explanations your concepts behind it? concepts that are unacceptable to many? I have heard you speak about Tarot and Sime~Gen of many years and have always been afraid to express my opinion but I can no longer hold it in. Many are afraid to tell you as I have been but someone should at least give you an idea of what has been discussed behind the scenes. So I decided that I would be the one. That I could no longer keep my mouth shut. I love Sime~Gen. Heck, I live in it, on line almost every day of the week. So I beg you, please do not add Tarot and Astrology. Please do not ruin this universe. I want/dream of more of it. I doubt, however, that we will get more because (and again, IMVHO) the masses usually will not accept the Tarot. A universe mutated, that is the original concept so why are you trying to change something that works. As the saying goes. If it works, why fix it? >Additional short stories set before or after the events in the novel -- or perhaps elsewhere during the novel's events? How much additional cost will this add? If it is within the acceptable range, then go for it. >How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? If it is Sime~Gen, I'll buy it but many will not be able to afford this. I'd say go for the masses and cut a deal for trades at a later date, after you have a ton of new people hooked. >And how much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? (give prices as a range) The going price for the size of paperbacks in the Sime~Gen range is about $6. That is what I would want to pay. If you range it higher by adding to it then you are going to lose people. If you are new, why pay more? Without knowing what you have, would you choose to pay more? >And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, how long are you willing to wait for minor additions? We could have reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, we're talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint program. I think the delay is problematic. You are wanting to get this on the market ASAP. I'd go for the paperbacks as is, using different covers then use your ideas for art and short stories in the trades. >Additionally, there are negotiations in progress that will result in all these novels being made >available on the web for FREE READING. No telling how LONG they would continue to be >posted to the Web, but they'd be there for free. They'd be hard to download and print, but >not impossible. Given that the material would be there for free, would you STILL buy the >book? If I weren't already in the Sime~Gen universe, I'd say no. There is too much material on the web to read. I'm a slow reader but even for a fast reader, there is too much. Why buy when you can read it? Of course, there is the idea that it is easier to read from a book than the screen. As a surfer, I always wonder about the quality of the reading material on the web and if I were told that these were previously published books, I would ask myself what was wrong with the books? Why couldn't they make it in the publishing world? I guess that is it. I hope I haven't offended you. Cherri aka Veraik ambrov Liorie Controller, Bender Cove Sime Center ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:04:40 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: Important Notice from America Online's Staff. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It figures. AOL is as bad as Microsoft when it comes to GREED. Well, ICQ is still FREE. -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:13:39 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Important Notice from America Online's Staff. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'd check that if I were you - looks like Spam to me Eliza At 15:22 17/08/98 EDT, you wrote: > Dear America Online and Instant Message users, > > Our America Online staff is planning to take away our Instant messages >by September 14,1998. If you want to keep your Instant Messages free of >charge,send this mail to everyone you know. It will be used as a petition. >Each person you send this to, counts as one"signature." If this petition gets >1,000 "signatures," our Instant Messages will still be avaliable at no extra >charge. If America Online does not recieve 1,000 "signatures," Instant >Messages will still be avaliable, but only to those who pay an extra 15.00 >dollars a month. If you do not care about not getting any future Instant >Messages, please send this for the sake of those who want to keep thier >Instant Messages free of charge. Thank you for your time and consideration. > > Robert >McDoggan > America >Online Assistance Director > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:31:04 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Janice St. Clair" Subject: Re: virus alert Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Listfolk; I sent the alert about the free Budweiser Frogs Screensaver to a friend, and received the following reply, which may be helpful to others too: Hi Janice, Well, your message below sounds suspicious simply because a virus cannot destroy your hard drive easily and any message that sounds panicky and asks you to email everyone you know is always suspect, so thanks for checking with us. The warnings forwarded to you are actually Internet "hoaxes" that have been around for awhile and continue to cause problems by using up time and resources simply to disprove them. The details on these hoaxes are located at http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html#penpal. Whenever you want to check the varacity of a virus the definitive site for finding out information is http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/ You might want to visit this site using Netscape and then make a bookmark of it for future use. This site is CIAC, the U.S. Department of Energy's Computer Incident Advisory Capability. Established in 1989, CIAC provides computer security services to employees and contractors of the United States Department of Energy. There are many good links from this reputable site to other sites for even more info. In fact, you might want to forward this reply to your friend to help educate them. Also, here's some text from a handout we give out when we install antivirus software around campus: What is a computer virus?Times A computer virus is a computer program written by an ill-intentioned programmer. A virus program is designed in such a way that, when run, it attaches a copy of itself to another computer program. Thereafter, whenever the infected program is run, the attached virus program is activated and attaches itself to yet other programs. In addition to replicating, some computer viruses are programmed specifically to damage data by corrupting programs, deleting files, or even reformatting your entire hard disk. Most viruses, however, are not designed to do serious damage; they simply replicate or display messages. Viruses can only infect files and corrupt data. They do not infect or damage hardware, such as keyboards or monitors. Though you may experience strange behaviors such as screen distortion or characters not appearing when typed, a virus has, in fact, merely affected the programs that control the display or keyboard.Times How is my computer infected?Times Your computer can be infected by any of these virus sources: reused floppy disks from unknown sources; disks from home or school; disks borrowed from friends; programs downloaded from online services; software bargains from non-reputable dealers; re-shrink-wrapped or opened software; pirated software; preformatted floppy disks.Times Am I at risk for a computer virus infection?Times Like many campuses, Lesley College is a medium to high-risk environment for computer viruses so you should leave your antivirus software active at all times and update your virus definitions file monthly.Times Hope this helps and thanks for checking with us. Please help spread the word to not forward "hoaxes" and to check them with reputable sources or not to forward at all. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:39:42 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Important Notice from America Online's Staff. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, it is spam....I called American Online and asked them speifically about the instant messages and then I asked them about AIM. She pulled up everything and saw no price schedules changed. When they went from 19,95 a mont to 21.95 a month they gave us three or four months notice. Anyway....never hurts to check out a rumor first;) As the woman said, she had nothing on it... and if something like that had been done, or was about to be done, billing hadn't been notified of it. Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 -----Original Message----- From: LadyEliza To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Important Notice from America Online's Staff. >I'd check that if I were you - looks like Spam to me > >Eliza > >At 15:22 17/08/98 EDT, you wrote: >> Dear America Online and Instant Message users, >> >> Our America Online staff is planning to take away our Instant messages >>by September 14,1998. If you want to keep your Instant Messages free of >>charge,send this mail to everyone you know. It will be used as a petition. >>Each person you send this to, counts as one"signature." If this petition >gets >>1,000 "signatures," our Instant Messages will still be avaliable at no extra >>charge. If America Online does not recieve 1,000 "signatures," Instant >>Messages will still be avaliable, but only to those who pay an extra 15.00 >>dollars a month. If you do not care about not getting any future Instant >>Messages, please send this for the sake of those who want to keep thier >>Instant Messages free of charge. Thank you for your time and consideration. >> >> Robert >>McDoggan >> America >>Online Assistance Director >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:42:38 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Re: Important Notice from America Online's Staff. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit J-Man wrote: It figures. AOL is as bad as Microsoft when it comes to GREED. Well, ICQ is still FREE. ------------------ Hate to tell you, but AOL is thinking of, or has purchased ICQ. It seems we can't win here. Kind regards -- Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:03:53 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion In-Reply-To: <001e01bdc9fc$39466c20$307a5ed1@xxxxxx.ter> from "Jacqueline Lichtenberg" at Aug 17, 98 12:17:30 pm Content-Type: text JL wrote: > So what would you -- who have access to the websites and fanzine materials > -- think would add value to a reprint of these novels? Background essays are always good. (By which I tend to mean "historical" and "technical" background, rather like the Appendixes to _The Lord of the Rings_, rather than the astrological and Tarot stuff -- I'm frankly very uninterested and rather turned off by that.) > Do you want additional interior artwork? If so, by which artists? Good ones Seriously, I wouldn't mind interior artwork in the slightest. Just make sure that any tentacles look like part of the arm rather than being glued on. > Articles about the Tarot and Astrological background underlying > the novels? Not interested. Possibly a turn-off (definitely for me, very likely for other people.) >Additional short stories set before or after the events in the novel -- or >perhaps elsewhere during the novel's events? Hmm... I wouldn't mind stories, as long as they fit in. Some places more than others, probably -- FIRST CHANNEL works pretty well on its own, but something, say, showing what the rest of the world thinks Digen is up to in UZF, or how the Channel's Strike worked out, would be interesting. (This varies from book to book. FIRST CHANNEL works well on its own, partly because the mood is "the lone discovering community against the world" so you wouldn't _want_ the rest of the world to intrude; some of the others like ZD affect the world in a much more open sense, so additional stuff would be nice.) If they add useful background, _and_ fit in with the book, they'd be fine. Stories just for the sake of stories -- I wouldn't mind, but I don't think they'd be much of an additional selling point, and delaying the publication of the books to write new stories would be annoying. > How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, long- > lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how > much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular > paperback? (give prices as a range) For a trade paperback holding one book, probably in the $10-15 range, or a bit higher if there's additional material. For a TP with several books (say FC/CD, HoZ/Ambrov Keon/ZD, UZF/RenSime!) around $25 seems fair. For a cheap paperback, in the $6-8 range and certainly not over $10. I already _have_ cheap paperbacks. > And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, how > long are you willing to wait for minor additions? We could > have reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, > we're talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint program. Bit of a loaded question here, I think. But I'd be willing to add 12 months or so to the overall period, for good additional material. > Additionally, there are negotiations in progress that will result in all > these novels being made available on the web for FREE > READING. No telling how LONG they would continue to be posted to the > Web, but they'd be there for free. They'd be hard to download > and print, but not impossible. Given that the material would be there > for free, would you STILL buy the book? If we can download them we can print them. No matter how difficult you make it to download them, once the thing is on my screen there's nothing you can do to stop me from printing it. I probably wouldn't print it, though I could certainly save it to disk (and very well might so that I could do computer searches if I needed evidence in a discussion). Too much hassle to print several hundred pages and have just typescript for my pains. Even with that, I'd probably buy the book. I'm that sort of person. (Actually, I'd recommend that you follow the Baen/Tor/Del Rey example and just put up 4-5 sample chapters from each book, rather than the whole thing.) Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:34:55 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: virus alert Janice writes: > > Hope this helps and thanks for checking with us. Please help spread > the word to not forward "hoaxes" and to check them with reputable > sources or not to forward at all. > There *is* actually a pretty nasty virus floating around right now, that affects Windows users of Netscape 4 and Internet Explorer 4. You can get the details at: http://www.netscape.com/products/security/resources/ bugs/longfile.html?cp=nwb08flh4 It has to do with attachments with very long filenames. So far no documented cases of this hitting anyone exist, but it's a very nasty one that could cause a lot of trouble if it does. Netscape and Microsoft will both have patches up soon. --Robyn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:41:01 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oooh I tired I tried I tried not to reply....but you know me....just can't stop from doing it:) Who do you want for the artwork? There is only ONE answer to that as far as I'm concerned. KAAS!!!!! The woman is one of these rare people who has talent oooozing from her....she is incredible:) hehehe...sorry, Kaas...don't mean to embarrass you.....Anyway, she did a wonderful photographic touch up....adding tentcles....and her work is just so rich and full of life...so real......unbelievable:) oaky okay........on to the next How about the order of events....table like katie's that shows the books and orders..... and then, of course, a glossary:) AND the map.........the map in the other book just isn't clear enough no tarot please... no pictures as much as I would love to see pictures inside.....not really necessary.....:) well, that's it for me:) ummmm if I could sell a book...I can guarantee you I'd beg them to let Kaas do my artwork...by pointing them to her site and saying 'look'.:) Cheryl Wolverton This SIde of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 17:42:11 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: virus alert MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I heard in the news that certain Eudora users needed to check too. Not the earlier versions...just the later ones:) Cheryl Wolverton This SIde of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 -----Original Message----- From: Robyn King-Nitschke To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 3:38 PM Subject: Re: virus alert >Janice writes: > > > >> >> Hope this helps and thanks for checking with us. Please help spread >> the word to not forward "hoaxes" and to check them with reputable >> sources or not to forward at all. >> > >There *is* actually a pretty nasty virus floating around >right now, that affects Windows users of Netscape 4 and >Internet Explorer 4. You can get the details at: > >http://www.netscape.com/products/security/resources/ >bugs/longfile.html?cp=nwb08flh4 > >It has to do with attachments with very long filenames. >So far no documented cases of this hitting anyone exist, >but it's a very nasty one that could cause a lot of >trouble if it does. Netscape and Microsoft will both >have patches up soon. > >--Robyn > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:02:32 -0400 Reply-To: j-man@xxxxxx.com Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: J-Man Organization: GOC Systems Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There is only ONE answer to that as far as I'm concerned. KAAS!!!!! The > woman is one of these rare people who has talent oooozing from her....she is > incredible:) hehehe...sorry, Kaas...don't mean to embarrass you.....Anyway, > she did a wonderful photographic touch up....adding tentcles....and her work > is just so rich and full of life...so real......unbelievable:) I don't know Kaas. Anything you ladies do, please DON'T get Kelly Freas. (known for cover art for LASER Books) and other stuff. IMHO his artwork bites. :) -- ___________________________________________________________ J-Man Gates of Creation ICQ# 2843475 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/5823/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:29:33 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Donna Halper Subject: Re: virus alert In-Reply-To: <007a01bdca41$0bab42a0$81cdd6d1@xxxxxx.ion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" it was written-- >I heard in the news that certain Eudora users needed to check too. Not the >earlier versions...just the later ones:) Eudora already has a fix posted on their website. I was always told that if somebody you don't know sends you a weird file with a long name, don't open it... but this all may be much ado about nothing, since as was mentioned before, there is no known instance of anyone having this bug yet. Keep an eye on the cnet website for the latest information...they are very reliable... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:38:44 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: NEWS: Reprint Discussion MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Congratulations on reaching #199 in the Founding 400! Regarding reprints--I would most be interested in having Author's Notes added to the reprints of the Sime/Gen novels. I used to pounce on Piers Anthony's 'Incarnations of Immortality' books not as much for the books themselves, but for the chance to read his Author's Notes. They were fascinating glimpses into his life, his personality, and his writing process. They are also something I enjoyed about buying the reprints of Sylvia Louise Engdahl's books a few years ago. Another reason for having Author's Notes (Authors' Notes?) instead of, say, a new short story or interior artwork is that Notes are relatively easy to write, and you can write them in a shorter time than it takes (usually) to write an entire, new short story. It would also be cheaper. That way, the books could be reprinted sooner, which I think everyone would prefer. I think that, unless you already have a short story that is ready right now or one that can be edited and made ready soon, to include with the reprints, it would be simpler to go with Notes. Re Tarot and astrological information--I'm totally uninterested in that stuff. If it were all you added, I'd pass on the reprints unless the cover artwork was especially interesting and well done. Reincarnation in the Sime-Gen universe, I can deal with, but adding Tarot and astrological stuff is too far out, in my opinion. Somehow, it just doesn't fit with the feel of the books, except for _Mahogany Trinrose_. I would include Tarot, etc. only if you are specifically trying to sell to a New-Age or Pagan audience, and not to the mainstream. I'm not sure that the mainstream readers would go for it. If you had given the series a Tarot-ish slant from the beginning, that would be one thing. But I've been able to read, understand, and enjoy the books while having no knowledge of Tarot or astrology at all, so I can't see much of a reason for adding it. Book size--I tend to prefer the normal book size because it is easier for me to carry around in my purse. However, if the reprints came out in trade size with better paper, good binding, and larger print, that would be very nice! Web versions--I'd probably give them a look-see, but I wouldn't read them unless my eyesight got much worse and I found the books too difficult to read. I sure wouldn't print them out. I prefer to have a book that I can hold, with pages I can turn. The only advantage to the computer is that the screen provides its own light and is generally easier for me to read than a book is now. Price I'd be willing to pay: $25 for a trade paperback with additions. The normal going price for a regular-sized book--say $6.50 or $7.00. If the reprint had no additions, I would not buy it in trade paperback size unless the cover art was outstanding. (Michael Whelan, not Tom Canty, or whoever does Guy Gavriel Kay's covers, please! Yes, I know I'm fantasizing. (g)) Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:38:50 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Chantal Whittington Subject: Re: Important Notice from America Online's Staff. Comments: To: j-man@xxxxxx.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 17-AUG-1998 17:16:40.1 j-man said to AERDEN j->It figures. AOL is as bad as Microsoft when it comes to GREED. j->Well, ICQ is still FREE. J-Man--Yeah, but doesn't AOL own ICQ now? :( Chantal ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:50:08 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Janice K Hrubes Subject: Re: K. Litman -- Not again!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Speaking from to many years experience- get thee to a Chiropractor. He may not be able to fix it but he can alleviate a lot of it! It's worth the trip. I had a good one that kept me going for five years until it just finally gave out all together and I had to give in to massive surgery. Janice ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:06:04 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Sylvia Engdahl Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion In-Reply-To: <001e01bdc9fc$39466c20$307a5ed1@xxxxxx.ter> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Jacqueline Lichtenberg wrote: > Also, a question has been raised that perhaps you on the List might > contribute answers to. The editors there have asked me to add > material to the novels that would make it worth YOUR while to buy > new copies of the books -- at least those of you who wouldn't be > buying them anyway to replace the crumbling old copies you have. > So what would you -- who have access to the websites and fanzine > materials -- think would add value to a reprint of these novels? It seems to me that you must have a very large audience that _doesn't_ have access to the website and fanzine materials, or in any case isn't aware of the website yet. Many, many people who enjoy books they get from libraries and stores would never think of contacting the author or the fan community, or who aren't aware that there is such a thing. I hear all the time from people who have liked my books for years but never imagined contacting me till they happened to find my website. There is not much new that you can say to people on this list, and large as it is, it's not a significant number of buyers from a publisher's standpoint -- but the fact that there are so many enthusiasts here indicates that there's a large number of devoted readers who aren't here (in addition to potential new readers). Those are the ones you need to think about, and surely they would be most interested in background material about the Sime-Gen universe. I agree with those who've said that Tarot/Astrological material would decrease the appeal for many, however. Some would like it, but there are more who wouldn't -- and the ones who would like it won't be turned away by its absence. > How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, > long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how much > would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating > regular paperback? (give prices as a range) I think people are willing to pay a lot more for omnibus editions than for single novels, which makes the use of good, long-lasting paper feasible. That's how my publisher seems to feel, and that's the reaction I received from a number of my fans even before I knew that my trilogy was to appear as an omnibus. Ordinary paperback paper would be a great mistake unless your publisher is in a position to distribute through mass-market channels rather than trade channels. > And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, > how long are you willing to wait for minor additions? We could have > reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, > we're talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint > program. For art or new stories, yes, but surely writing introductions, notes, etc. wouldn't take long -- you already have a lot of material that would just need to be organized. Are you scanning the books personally, as I'm doing with mine? (I assume you didn't have a computer at the time they were written.) It doesn't take long to add introductions/afterwords and certainly doesn't increase the production time once the disk is turned in. Sylvia ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ** New edition of my Star Trilogy coming in 2000 from Meisha Merlin! ** ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Sylvia Engdahl - Eugene, Oregon Visit my Website! sengdahl@xxxxxx.com http://www.teleport.com/~sengdahl/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:12:50 EDT Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Karen Litman Subject: Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Most of the ideas for the reprints I can agree with. I think Kaas is an excellent choice for art possibilities, but I also think we should include Hannah in on this. Her art has been used widely on paperbacks before, including MZB's Darkover series. Anyone who has seen her S~G art at the convention would probably back me up. Just my two cents. --- Karen Litman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:15:20 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tony Zbaraschuk Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion In-Reply-To: <302200e.35d8e327@xxxxxx.com> from "Karen Litman" at Aug 17, 98 10:12:50 pm Content-Type: text Karen Litman wrote: > I think Kaas is an excellent choice for art possibilities, but I also think we > should include Hannah in on this. Her art has been used widely on paperbacks > before, including MZB's Darkover series. Anyone who has seen her S~G art at > the convention would probably back me up. Just my two cents. I agree that Hannah should definitely be considered, whether for cover or interior art. Tony Z ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:03:26 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jenn Subject: Re: Questions from an 11 year old fan In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980817012332.006b3e7c@xxxxxx..au> from "LadyEliza" at Aug 17, 98 01:23:34 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > NO no no. thank you for all your ideas, but he doesn't want a costume, he > wants real tenticles. He is looking forward to change over and wants to > know if I'll be giving him first transfer. lol (no, he isn't mad, just > hopeful) .. and eleven years old. Yeah, I understand. > >(Melbourne is /COLD/. But very pretty, & I'm able to be useful. It's fun.) > >(Oh, and Gossie is just as wonderful in person as she is over the net!) > > I didn't know you two hadn't met in person! That's great! Give her my love :) Nup, we hadn't. Have now. :) Jenn V. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:31:33 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Hannah M.G. Shapero" Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion In-Reply-To: <199808180315.UAA05884@xxxxxx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > I think Kaas is an excellent choice for art possibilities, but I also think we > > should include Hannah in on this. Her art has been used widely on paperbacks > > before, including MZB's Darkover series. Anyone who has seen her S~G art at > > the convention would probably back me up. Just my two cents. > > I agree that Hannah should definitely be considered, whether for cover > or interior art. Thanks folks! I was going to gently volunteer for such an illustration project if no one mentioned me. All I'd need was enough lead-time. Not "We need it next week if not sooner!" I've done Sime-Gen art for years. I'd be happy to consult with the authors as to exactly what they want. Yours, Hannah M.G.Shapero ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 23:42:46 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Ronnie Bob Whitaker Subject: Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Monday, 17 August 1998, Response to JL and gang, JL Writes: >The publisher, The Bradford Press, seems to be aiming this reprint into a >direction that my books have never been aimed in before -- >we are breaking new ground here. So they don't want the standard SF-look >covers this time. RBW Comments: Perhaps this time you can make sure that the Starred-Cross appears on each of the reprint covers somewhere. S~G typically falls under the SF tag as far as I'm concerned, but having Fantasy type covers would also be apt. JL Writes: >Also, a question has been raised that perhaps you on the List might contribute >answers to. The editors there have asked me to add >material to the novels that would make it worth YOUR while to buy new copies of >the books -- at least those of you who wouldn't be >buying them anyway to replace the crumbling old copies you have. >So what would you -- who have access to the websites and fanzine materials -- >think would add value to a reprint of these novels? RBW Comments: I agree with the some of the previous suggestions: 1) pronunciation guides (like Robyn I still can't pronounce selyn as sehLINE which is supposed to be the proper pronunciation. Likewise Zee Or instead of Zay Or, nog ger instead of nah jer, and it means I would be useless in doing any reading for the blind without a LOT of work, 2) Sime~Gen Chronology and where the books fall (RenSime had the latest, but could be updated, couldn't it Katie?), 3) maps which still leave room for the "others" to participate in your universe, 4) don't forget to include the POB 290 and web addresses in your encouragement for feedback, 5) Major character and household index, with possibly the Farris and Tigue family trees in some of the later books, 6) Somehow get the short stories which were published into the the reprints; Channel's Exemption and either Hop Skip and Jump or Operation High Time, were professionally published and it would really be nice if they could be included in the reprints, 7) It would really be nice to get some of the material from the editing room floor that had to be cut to meet the size limitations that were imposed. The fanzines are rife with it, but it would require extra effort to get it meshed in with the published material properly. JL Writes: >Do you want additional interior artwork? If so, by which artists? Articles >about the Tarot and Astrological background underlying >the novels? Additional short stories set before or after the events in the >novel -- or perhaps elsewhere during the novel's events? RBW Comments: 1) Interior artwork doesn't affect me one way or another, I'm more of a word person and I let my imagination fill in the story for me. 2) About the only book where articles on the Tarot and Astrological background underlying the novels might be helpful is Mahogany Trinrose. In the other books, they might actually detract from the reader's enjoyment. Stories and articles about what was going on in the author's life and how that affected the novels might be interesting. (Particularly how different RenSime was from the originally intended Sime From Gen Divided, and I know that the Farris Channel will probably be much different than the one intended many years ago.) 3) JL hasn't proven to be a very good "short story" writer, (she thinks better in terms of multi-volume novels.) However, "short stories" or articles on such things as the legend of the Killer Gen, Wer-Gen, short - related fairy tales of Gens and Simes, might be interesting additions. JL Writes: >How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, >long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how >much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular >paperback? (give prices as a range) RBW Comments: In current day dollars and compared to current day prices: $15 - 20 for single novel trade, up to $30 for multi novel omnibus trade. (Suggestions, First Channel/Channel's Destiny, Ambrov Keon/Zelerod's Doom, Unto Zeor, Forever/Mahogany Trinrose, RenSime/Channel's Exemption/Hop Skip & Jump, House of Zeor/+ future outline of Klyd and Hugh or add in with AK/ZD) JL Writes: >And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, how long are >you willing to wait for minor additions? We could >have reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, we're >talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint >program. RBW Comments: I know that the publishing schedule is one of the problems with getting the timing right, but I think that by careful selection of the additions with easier ones on the first books to be reprinted and harder ones on the later ones to be reprinted, the wait would be worth while. The NEW book should be in the schedule which should help develop demand for the previously published books. JL Writes: >Additionally, there are negotiations in progress that will result in all these >novels being made available on the web for FREE >READING. No telling how LONG they would continue to be posted to the Web, but >they'd be there for free. They'd be hard to download >and print, but not impossible. Given that the material would be there for >free, would you STILL buy the book? RBW Comments: I don't think that the web books readers have much impact currently on print purchases. Very few will actually do a long reading on the web. I would still buy the book, even if the material were free. If there is concern on this issue, however, perhaps only offering sample chapters and additional material might lead some of the web readers to purchase the books. JL Writes: >Those who don't want to buy new copies of these novels -- how would you feel >about there being additional material added to the >novel reprints that you would have to pay TOO MUCH to get, but can't have any >other way. Artwork, additional short-stories, >whatever -- you'd be paying too much if you didn't want the novels themselves >but just the added material. RBW Comments: Doesn't apply to me, I would probably buy them with or without added material. JL Writes: >Personally, I lean toward a simple, straight reprint, perhaps with some >interior art as the budget might allow, but get the books >out there as quickly and cheaply as possible. But I don't have the final say >on this -- so let's hear your opinions. RBW Comments: Since you asked, I answered. If you are only going to have simple, straight reprints, then mass paperback would be much better. People expect MORE from trade paper backs than straight reprints. (At least if the mass book has already been published, this isn't true in the cycle when the Hardcover comes out first, followed by the Trade and then the mass market, they can all be the same because they are getting the different people for the different style of book, in those cases, I ALWAYS wait for the mass paperback, since I can buy more of them and the Trade and hardcover are more difficult for me to handle.) Having Fun in the Sime~Gen Universe, Ronnie Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:40:58 -0700 Reply-To: "Donald R. Jaramillo" Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: "Donald R. Jaramillo" Subject: Re: Important Notice from America Online's Staff. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Karen Litman To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 12:33 PM Subject: Re: Important Notice from America Online's Staff. > Dear America Online and Instant Message users, > > Our America Online staff is planning to take away our Instant messages >by September 14,1998. If you want to keep your Instant Messages free of >charge,send this mail to everyone you know. It will be used as a petition. >Each person you send this to, counts as one"signature." If this petition gets >1,000 "signatures," our Instant Messages will still be avaliable at no extra >charge. If America Online does not recieve 1,000 "signatures," Instant >Messages will still be avaliable, but only to those who pay an extra 15.00 >dollars a month. If you do not care about not getting any future Instant >Messages, please send this for the sake of those who want to keep thier >Instant Messages free of charge. Thank you for your time and consideration. > > Robert >McDoggan > America >Online Assistance Director > Hmmm.... Sounds like now that AOL has purchased ICQ, the classic ICQ spam has moved over to AIM. After two years of ICQ and all the dire warnings, it becomes so very old. :-) It looks like AIM picked up ICQ's spammers as part of the $287 million purchase. Follow Your Bliss! Don Jaramillo ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org http://www.stattenfield.org/don/ ICQ: 2869199 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 03:37:39 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Underdraaw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay here is a question for you Jean, JL:) Underdraw. I know we've discussed this before...but darned if I can find it:) Underdraw is where the Gen's selyn rate spirals out of control and simply put, has too much selyn for their system. They must have transfer or eventually will burn up, or go crazy and commit suicide. Okay.....question. If you have a channel who is working to control their selyn production level...like Digen in UZF, they are only CONTROLLING IT???? the minute they leave...that Donor is STILL in underdraw? Correct?? And that field continues to produce selyn correct? And you would want to keep them away from any channel in need until they had transfer?? The only cure IS transfer??? Would you draw selyn from them to give them temporary relief? Or would that only irritate the condition? Are there any other treatments for this? Now, I'll leave you to this...I'm sure when I check later today..yes, it's four a.m. my time JL:)))))) told you! ehehehehe.....I hope there is some interesting conversation.... I would really like to find out everything I can on underdraw...and chanel didn't have anything.....[*Looks woefully at her Sosectu*] nor did First year school [another woebegone look at Sosectu] and I couldn't find anything other than in UZF [page 30-40 and page 169] and then the glossary term on rathor's retreat[I think that's where it was] Thanks, in advance!!!!!! Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 06:50:44 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Underdraaw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Okay.....question. >If you have a channel who is working to control their selyn production >level...like Digen in UZF, they are only CONTROLLING IT???? > >The only cure IS transfer??? > When Im'ran turned up in Rior he was suffering underdraw. Digen stabalised it by drawing from his GN levels while Im kept any movement from happening in the TN levels. I don't know why they didn't use this method with Ilyana at the Tecton center - unless it was that she wasn't a tecton trained Donor and theirfore didn't have the control. Digen managed to stabilise Im using this method and stop him going crazy etc UZF, playboy edition page 241 Eliza Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 06:56:14 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: K Litman -- update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm glad it's just a flareup and not a new injury. Unfortunately, that is how backs are--once they start going out, they just continue. Most of us can keep them under control with the right exercise regimen _most_ of the time, but no matter how faithful we are, every so often we need professional help. Ask me. Ask Jacqueline. Ask Robert Plant, who now admits openly what has been obvious in his performances for years: his back regularly goes out, and he has chiropractors and massage therapists on call all around the world. Even the rich and famous can't escape it. So hang in there, Karen, and work with your doctors. If you don't have to go back for a month, you know it's not _that_ serious--your doctor obviously doesn't think you are likely to do any damage by moving around. That's _good_ news. We're all hoping you feel better very soon. Jean At 02:41 PM 8/17/98 EDT, Karen wrote: >The doctor is calling it a "flare up" of the original injury. Thankfully, not >as bad as it was last year. So back to the aquatic therapy, and off the horse >for a month. He's got me on Naproxen (prescription 500 mg) twice a day and >that's about all. > >I can't walk without my crutches at all, but I'm not in a lot of pain, and I >drove myself to the doctor. I'm to see him in a month. Unfortunately, he >says this is something to expect periodically for the rest of my life ----- >DAMN! > > Love to you and Hart, Karen > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:25:37 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Kaas Baichtal Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My 2 cents: > Do you want additional interior artwork? If so, by which artists? Articles about the > Tarot and Astrological background underlying the novels? Additional short stories set > before or after the events in the novel -- or perhaps elsewhere during the novel's events? Other than maps or charts and so forth, I don't like interior illustrations in novels written for adults. They tend to "kiddie-fy" the book for me unless they are very dry in nature. (To those who suggested my name as an artist, thank you.) Oh, yes, the Tarot issue: Personally, I would rather the major additions stick to the visible, zlinnable, concrete and/or scientific aspects of the stories and background. Perhaps a small article regarding the Tarot, etc. would serve to alert interested persons that there is more they can look into if they are so inclined? << How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? (give prices as a range) >> Given that I am already a fan, and likely to buy the books again just as a matter of principle, I am not too picky about the price. However, this concern for harvesting the money of current fans seems a bit dangerous to me. If the books are tailored to the interests of folks who read them 15-20 years ago, how will the books grab kids who are 13 years old today? Perhaps there will be no problem but it bears consideration. I found unnerving the line where you said the publishers wanted to go away from the "Standard SF Cover". << Personally, I lean toward a simple, straight reprint, perhaps with some interior art as the budget might allow, but get the books out there as quickly and cheaply as possible. But I don't have the final say on this -- so let's hear your opinions. >> I am of this opinion also, except I agree with the others who feel that better maps, a pronounciation guide, and Farris and Tigue family trees would be nice. Some of those things aren't even available on the websites. --Kaas kaas@xxxxxx.com http://www.baichtal.com/kaas/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:55:09 -0400 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Tori J Warden Subject: A Lurker Steps Up To Bat (so to speak) In-Reply-To: <199808180500.AAA24512@xxxxxx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all, I've been waiting for an opportunity to jump in SOMEWHERE in a conversation, and why not do it here - where I can give an opinion (opinionated sort that I am!). Some of you may know me from the listserv FAQ - I've been an S~G fan since the mid 1980s, and I'm thrilled to be able to do some small part to help keep the universe alive. > >So what would you -- who have access to the websites and fanzine materials -- think would add value to a reprint of these novels? The books would have value to me even without additional content changes. You know how poorly paperbacks hold up over time, especially with multiple readings! (I take my books into the tub when I'm in for a long soak, so the humidity has really done nasty things to the bindings.) > >Do you want additional interior artwork? If so, by which artists? While artwork would be nice, in some ways it robs me of the opportunity to use my imagination and create the look of the characters in my mind. I'd say that artwork isn't going to make or break the book for me, and isn't going to be an additional selling point. Articles about the Tarot and Astrological background underlying >the novels? Please no. Until I found this list, I didn't realize that this actually had any part in the S~G universe, and if I had known it before I probably wouldn't have developed the same love for the books that I have now. One part of me wants to scream "what tarot and astrological background???" I know it was there in MT, but since that wasn't my favorite of the books, I tend to ignore it a bit more in the grand scheme of things. No offense intended to the authors. That's just been my interpretation of the books. Additional short stories set before or after the events in the novel -- or perhaps elsewhere during the novel's events? Okay, this would definitely hook me! And it would answer a lot of questions that I've had over the years. (Of course, it would also make me put aside the resolutions I made up in my own mind - because what would be in the books would be canon, and my imagination - well, it's barely comprehendable on a good day.) > >How much would you be willing to pay for a Trade Paperback on good, long-lasting paper -- for such additional material? And how >much would you be willing to pay for an ordinary fast-deteriorating regular paperback? (give prices as a range) Good trade paperback, with new cover and artwork - I'd pay up to $20.00 per book. Ordinary paperback - sorry, I wouldn't pay more than what the going price is right now, and I believe that's been about $6.99. > >And considering that adding such material will DELAY the reprint, how long are you willing to wait for minor additions? Well, how many more trips into the sauna/steamroom do you think my current books are going to be able to handle??? If we can get additions to the books, I'll wait. If it's just a matter of reprinting the originals with no changes, I'd love to see them on the market as soon as possible. We could >have reprints within 18-24 months with nothing added. With additions, we're talking 3 years and more to complete the whole reprint >program. > >Additionally, there are negotiations in progress that will result in all these novels being made available on the web for FREE >READING. No telling how LONG they would continue to be posted to the Web, but they'd be there for free. They'd be hard to download >and print, but not impossible. Given that the material would be there for free, would you STILL buy the book? Of course? I can't take the computer into the bath. ;) Doesn't mean I haven't considered it, with the laptop, but I don't think I'd want to risk the hard drive getting waterlogged. > >Those who don't want to buy new copies of these novels -- how would you feel about there being additional material added to the >novel reprints that you would have to pay TOO MUCH to get, but can't have any other way. Artwork, additional short-stories, >whatever -- you'd be paying too much if you didn't want the novels themselves but just the added material. This is probably where the web comes in handy. Those who just want the additions and changes could get them off of a website, and not have to reprint the entire novel that they've already read. > >Personally, I lean toward a simple, straight reprint, perhaps with some interior art as the budget might allow, but get the books >out there as quickly and cheaply as possible. But I don't have the final say on this -- so let's hear your opinions. I suppose in the end, I agree completely with JL's comments here. I will express some concern that Bradford Press is going to want to force the tarot/astrological issue. Didn't they already state that they wanted to make certain that there was a connection with the Tarot books??? Are we really going to have any say in that matter, when it boils down to their agenda? I think it was Robyn who said the following: >> - pronunciation keys for common S~G words (I have pronounced >> it SELlin for nigh onto 20 years, and I canNOT get my mind >> around pronouncing it selLINE, even if JL says so!) :) > >Yes, I so agree. I have been pronouncing it that way too! > Me too! Me too! I'm sure I've worn out my welcome by this point. Thanks for letting me air my opinions! Tori twarden@xxxxxx.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:55:31 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: Reprint Discussion Ronnie Bob writes: > Likewise Zee Or instead of Zay Or It's ZEE-or? AUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! (And I mean that in a nice way...) :) I guess it's my California Territory accent, but it'll always be ZAY-or to me. Sheesh...it's getting to where every S~G word I encounter is pronounced differently than I've been doing for 20 years! All I have to do is look at a word, figure out how *I* think it's pronounced, and then change it! Don't tell me..."Sectuib" is really pronounced "Chuck," right? :) --Robyn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:09:43 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Underdraaw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this something only Digen could do? Is it a normal Tecton practice or was this something that is 'illegal' so to speak..... Cheryl Wolverton This SIde of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 -----Original Message----- From: LadyEliza To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 1:52 AM Subject: Re: Underdraaw >>Okay.....question. >>If you have a channel who is working to control their selyn production >>level...like Digen in UZF, they are only CONTROLLING IT???? >> >>The only cure IS transfer??? >> > >When Im'ran turned up in Rior he was suffering underdraw. Digen stabalised >it by drawing from his GN levels while Im kept any movement from happening >in the TN levels. > >I don't know why they didn't use this method with Ilyana at the Tecton >center - unless it was that she wasn't a tecton trained Donor and theirfore >didn't have the control. > >Digen managed to stabilise Im using this method and stop him going crazy etc > >UZF, playboy edition page 241 > >Eliza >Companion to Zoe Farris > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:39:44 CST Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re[2]: Reprint Discussion In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:55:31 CST Robyn writes, >Ronnie Bob writes: > >> Likewise Zee Or instead of Zay Or > >It's ZEE-or? > >AUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! > >(And I mean that in a nice way...) :) > >I guess it's my California Territory accent, but it'll always >be ZAY-or to me. It's pronounced ZAY-or. >Sheesh...it's getting to where every S~G word I encounter >is pronounced differently than I've been doing for 20 years! >All I have to do is look at a word, figure out how *I* >think it's pronounced, and then change it! > >Don't tell me..."Sectuib" is really pronounced "Chuck," right? :) Actually, it's pronounced "Fred." Jean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:02:20 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Robyn King-Nitschke Subject: Re: Re[2]: Reprint Discussion Jean writes: > > It's pronounced ZAY-or. > YYYYEEESSSSS! Thank you, Jean. My head starts to smoke when I have to shift too many paradigms without a clutch. :) (I'm still getting used to "Klid" really being "Clyde," and I've know that for years!) > >Sheesh...it's getting to where every S~G word I encounter > >is pronounced differently than I've been doing for 20 years! > >All I have to do is look at a word, figure out how *I* > >think it's pronounced, and then change it! > > > >Don't tell me..."Sectuib" is really pronounced "Chuck," right? :) > > Actually, it's pronounced "Fred." Jean > Oh. Well, okay then! Fred it is! :) --Robyn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:56:04 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Ronnie Bob Whitaker Subject: Enunciation Error (was Reprint Discussion) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tuesday, 18 August 1998 Dear Gang, Robyn Writes: >Ronnie Bob writes: >> Likewise Zee Or instead of Zay Or >It's ZEE-or? >AUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! >(And I mean that in a nice way...) :) RBW Comments: Actually, you have misunderstood me. Zay Or is the CORRECT pronunciation, I have always pronounced it Zee or. Just as you put SEL in first as the incorrect pronunciation and Seh LINE as the correct one, I put the incorrect one that I have always used first with the correct one following, even though I only had two other examples. Too bad I didn't go through the entire simelan dictionary, or you would have found that I have a TERRIBLE Simelan accent, almost unrecognizeable, but like you, that is the way I have been pronouncing the words since I first encountered the books, shortly after they were published in paperback, and it is VERY hard to try to changeover (pun intended) to the correct enunciation. Having Fun in the Sime~Gen Universe, Ronnie Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:57:06 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Accents Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Ronnie Bob writes: >It's ZEE-or? >AUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! >(And I mean that in a nice way...) :) > >I guess it's my California Territory accent, but it'll always >be ZAY-or to me. I think we have to allow a LITTLE leaway for geographical accents don't we? There is no way the Aussies are going to be able to say 1/2 the words in the same way you people do! We don't have accents over here you see :) Eliza Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:01:32 +1000 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: LadyEliza Subject: Re: Underdraaw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:09 18/08/98 -0700, you wrote: >Is this something only Digen could do? Is it a normal Tecton practice or >was this something that is 'illegal' so to speak..... I didn't get the impression that it was illegal - but it probibly helped that he was a Farris! (Digen talking) "So, in my - professional opinion - I think the best thing for you is to attain transfer dormancy." It ment that he would miss a tranfer - something that a first would never do, given the Donor shortage. UZF (playboy version) page 240 Hope that helps Eliza Companion to Zoe Farris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:14:21 -0700 Reply-To: Donald Jaramillo Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Donald Jaramillo Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: J-Man To: SIMEGEN-L@SIU.EDU Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 4:28 PM Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion >> There is only ONE answer to that as far as I'm concerned. KAAS!!!!! The >> woman is one of these rare people who has talent oooozing from her....she is >> incredible:) hehehe...sorry, Kaas...don't mean to embarrass you.....Anyway, >> she did a wonderful photographic touch up....adding tentcles....and her work >> is just so rich and full of life...so real......unbelievable:) Yes, Kaas has done a very great service to us all in her art. :-) >I don't know Kaas. Anything you ladies do, please DON'T get Kelly >Freas. (known for cover art for LASER Books) and other stuff. IMHO his >artwork bites. :) With the onset of so many other talented artists over the years, Freas' style seems so less special that it once did. If we were looking for Big Name Artists, one of my very favorites is Michael Whelan. Follow Your Bliss! Don ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org ICQ: 10762090 (Work) ICQ: 2869199 (Home) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:17:32 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: TECH: Problems caused by Netscape and IE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Web Developers Blast Microsoft and Netscape Browser incompatibilities reportedly account for 25 percent of Web site development costs. Why? by Lisa Moskowitz, PC World August 12, 1998, 9:58 a.m. PT You download this really cool accelerator that's supposed to let you surf the Web 30 times faster than using a browser alone. But when you install it, you find out that it's not compatible with your current browser. How annoying is that? Very. And according to the Web Standards Project, a new group championing standards in the Web development industry, browser incompatibility is just as irritating for software makers and Web site developers. Aiming to make life easier for both users and developers, the WSP Tuesday called on browser makers to comply with the guidelines set by the World Wide Web Consortium, which sets software and display standards for the Web. "There needs to be some cooperation," said Glenn Davis, a founding member of WSP and cofounder of Project Cool. "Someone should turn them [Netscape Communications and Microsoft] over the knee and spank them and say stop with the egos." Standards Sought The goal of the WSP is to encourage eventual implementation of all the World Wide Web Consortium's standards. For now, it's focusing on the following: Cascading Style Sheets 1, which describes how documents are presented; Document Object Model, which defines how elements on a Web page can be manipulated; and Extensible Markup Language, also known as XML, a "super" markup language for many kinds of documents and activities. Last year, the World Wide Web Consortium issued several protocols that have yet to be adopted in full by the two leading browser manufacturers. Those standards include HTML 4.0, CSS1, and DOM. The WSP estimates that 25 percent of the cost of building a Web site is spent addressing browser incompatibilities. The cheaper, faster alternative is to build products and sites to one browser's specs, or to use only the simplest features that are supported by most browsers. "Web designers want to use the standards but can't because they're inconsistent. They have to either ignore the new features altogether or create three or four different versions of the same site to get it to look right with different browsers," said Ann Navarro, vice president of finance for the HTML Writers Guild and founder of WebGeek Communications. "I would like to see the next releases of the browsers held off until they could support these [World Wide Web Consortium] standards," she said. The next version of Microsoft's browser, Internet Explorer 5, does support Dynamic HTML and Cascading Style Sheets 2. These features will allow users to change how a Web page looks on their PC without affecting the Web site itself. The way CSS2 is used in IE5 also gives a Web site drag-and-drop capabilities. Eric Byunn, group product manager for Netscape Communicator, could not go into details about Communicator 5.0, which is expected to be released in beta by year end. But he did say that discussions around Communicator 5.0 have included improving Dynamic HTML, CSS2, and XML. "We're very involved with [the World Wide Web Consortium] and try to implement those standards that make sense as quickly as possible," Byunn said. "We agree with the direction of the WSP and firmly believe that for certain types of content, standards are the way to go." Asked why Navigator 4.x doesn't better comply with the standards, Byunn replied that it's sometimes difficult to coordinate production schedules. "The current 4.0 browsers were released at a poor time given where the standards were at that point," he said. "Sometimes we work on a new version before the specs are finalized. That's when we have a split with some key standards." Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 12:53:26 -0700 Reply-To: Donald Jaramillo Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Donald Jaramillo Subject: OFFTOPIC: Page & Plant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I expect that this will be of interest to Jean, but others may be interested as well. I recently got a copy of the LAUNCH CD-ROM. The "cover" artist is Sheryl Crow, but one of the entries on the cover reads: Page & Plant Live, Loud and Proud www.launchcdrom.com Let Go, Let Gen! Don ddraig@xxxxxx.org don@xxxxxx.org djaramillo@xxxxxx.com roburddraig@xxxxxx.com ICQ: 10762090 (Work) ICQ: 2869199 (Home) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:47:30 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:46:31 -0500 >To: Donald Jaramillo >From: Jean Lorrah >Subject: Re: NEWS: Founding 400 Update & Reprint Discussion > >At 12:14 PM 8/18/98 -0700, Don wrote: > >>With the onset of so many other talented artists over the years, Freas' >>style seems so less special that it once did. If we were looking for Big >>Name Artists, one of my very favorites is Michael Whelan. > >Folks, we cannot afford Big Name Artists like Kelly Freas and Michael Whelan. What we hope to do is discover artists just as good who have not yet had the exposure, give them that exposure at prices we _can_ afford, watch them move up the ladder...and then just hope that we can be successful enough at selling books and other things to still be able to afford them as their prices rise. Jean > > Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:28:49 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: Re: Underdraaw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:37 AM 8/18/98 -0700, Cheryl wrote: >Okay here is a question for you Jean, JL:) > >Underdraw. I know we've discussed this before...but darned if I can find >it:) > >Underdraw is where the Gen's selyn rate spirals out of control and simply >put, has too much selyn for their system. They must have transfer or >eventually will burn up, or go crazy and commit suicide. Right. Listen to the Underdraw Song, called "Burning Up," on Page and Plant's new album "Walking into Clarksdale" if you want a musical representation of this condition. When I first heard it, I could not _believe_ how these guys were reading my mind all the time I was creating (discovering) Zhag and Tonyo! >Okay.....question. >If you have a channel who is working to control their selyn production >level...like Digen in UZF, they are only CONTROLLING IT???? >the minute they leave...that Donor is STILL in underdraw? Correct?? Well, let me see if I can work this out. A Donor in Underdraw suffers most when exposed to Simes in need, especially a channel in need. Exposure to post Simes would alleviate some of the suffering. What a channel does is to make his own showfield seem as if he is post--only the highest order Donors suffer underdraw, so it takes a very high horder channel to do much good. Such a channel can actually grasp and manipulate the Donor's field to some degree, but remember, we are talking these very high order therapist-type Donors as the only people who ever have this disorder, so while they are in this condition it is very hard for them to let a channel manipulate their fields, when all their training has been to learn to influence Sime fields. >And that field continues to produce selyn correct? If the regulators can be gotten to work again, if the Donor remains alone, among Gens, or among high-field Simes, they will probably continue to hold. But that Donor remains in essence an invalid--like a person with wild allergies to absolutely everything, who at certain times of year dare not even venture out of the house. Hell of a way to try to live. >And you would want to keep them away from any channel in need until they had >transfer?? Definitely! >The only cure IS transfer??? Not just transfer, but transfer with an equivalent channel. >Would you draw selyn from them to give them temporary relief? Or would that >only irritate the condition? As drawing selyn stimulates production, relief is only temporary. It might be done to allow the Donor to travel to where the channel who needs him is waiting. >Are there any other treatments for this? Getting the condition under control, and then moving permanently to Gen Territory--another hellish form of existence for a capital-D Donor. Also, unnecessary. During the time period when these susceptible over-induced Donors exist, there are always deprived super-channels who desperately need them. The problem we see in UNTO is bringing them together under the Tecton's stupid rules for avoiding dependancies. Eliza writes, >>When Im'ran turned up in Rior he was suffering underdraw. Digen stabalised >>it by drawing from his GN levels while Im kept any movement from happening >>in the TN levels. >> >>I don't know why they didn't use this method with Ilyana at the Tecton >>center - unless it was that she wasn't a tecton trained Donor and theirfore >>didn't have the control. That is exactly right. Im will release control to Digen. Ilyana will never release control to any channel, nor can she control herself. She is a "drifter," you remember, not a fanir like Im. She is not capable of controlling her TN levels--they will drift off to match those of the channel trying to help her. Cheryl then asks, >Is this something only Digen could do? Is it a normal Tecton practice or >was this something that is 'illegal' so to speak..... No, any 4+ channel could do it, but it is much easier for Digen to help Im because they are so closely matched. OTOH, that close match makes being near Digen hell for Im. Cheryl again: >I would really like to find out everything I can on underdraw...and chanel >didn't have anything.....[*Looks woefully at her Sosectu*] nor did First >year school [another woebegone look at Sosectu] and I couldn't find anything >other than in UZF [page 30-40 and page 169] and then the glossary term on >rathor's retreat[I think that's where it was] Well, there is another kind of Donor who has not been written about at all yet, who is subject to underdraw. Tonyo told me about it, as after his life as Tonyo, his next life was as a non-Companion Donor (I don't know the term for these people yet). It's another of the Tecton's bright ideas to keep its promises, and occurs during Digen's lifetime, that 120-year span during which the Tecton reached the pinnacle of its power and its well-intentioned atrocities. This whole class of Donors was such an atrocity, on a par with the historical castrati. Thet were all dead--most of them horribly--before Digen died. You recall that the Tecton was keeping out-T Gens satisfied with the Tecton's actions by keeping them separate and safe from Simes instead of educating them to live with Simes as we know they should have, and by providing selyn technology to increase out-T quality of life. Technology that uses ridiculous amounts of selyn, like running trains on it (!!!), is used to get out-T Gens to donate through channels, thus creating the channel shortage, followed by the capital-D Donor shortage, etc. Well, after that crisis is bandaged over when young Digen returns to the Tecton at the end of UNTO, there is still the problem of getting enough selyn to run that profligate selyn technology in order to keep the Tecton's promises, while the Sime population is increasing. It doesn't take a Zelerod to calculate that with the Sime/Gen ratio moving in the direction of 50/50, while a good percentage of out-T Gens _still_ don't even donate, it won't be very long before there is no longer an excess of selyn available to run all that wonderful technology. Hence the Tecton's new atrocity. We know that every Gen is capable of being induced up to extremely high levels of selyn production, if at establishment that Gen is exposed to Simes, preferably channels, in need. Any Gen can be induced up to Second Order, many into the low First range, and a few right up to 4+ levels--it's a combination of genetic potential and the circumstances at their establishment. Well, somebody comes up with the brilliant idea of applying Hayashi's technology to inducing and training Gens to superproduction, so there will be excess selyn to run the selyn technology with which the Tecton keeps out-T Gens happy. The thing is, these Gens do not give transfer to channels; they do not give transfer at all. They don't even donate to channels. They are trained from their first "donation" to drain their selyn directly into selyn batteries. All Gen-identified listmembers in chorus: EEUUUWWWWWWWW! GROSS! Yup. The Tecton recruits these kids by talking in almost religious terms about the good of the community, by providing bonuses to their families to turn the kids over into the program, and by paying these special donors _extremely well_. It means that once they have passed the training, these Gens have infinite choices as to what to do with their lives. They can simply live very well and do nothing but donate selyn twice a month (yes, they are induced to that degree), or they can be artists, or teachers, or do anything at all they want with their lives. To someone who _knows no better_, it sounds like a terrific way of getting very rich by doing practically nothing! Of course _we_ all know that never knowing the joy of actual transfer is actually a _horrible_ way to live--and of course after a few years it begins to backfire as these superinduced Gens begin to suffer from underdraw in spades! "Oh, no problem," says the Tecton, "just donate three times a month, or four--we can always use the extra selyn, and you just get more money." The long-term result? Psychotic Giant Killer Gens. And in some cases the eruption of the Endowment in extremely destructive ways. That is the story of the man Tonyo becomes in his next incarnation--his underdraw erupts as pyromania and other poltergeist activity. It's not supernatural; it's selyn power out of conscious control. I don't know his whole story yet, but I think the novel may actually be called UNDERDRAW. It's the story of some of the results of Digen's decision to support the Tecton, results that the Tecton _does_ learn from! When they see what happens to these superinduced Gens, the Tecton _stops_ this program--but what are they going to do with those psychotic Wild Killer Gens? Every time I turn around, there's another story to be told! Folks, I _know_ what underdraw is! It's having all these stories to tell and no trade publisher willing to publish them. Jean Jean Lorrah A21711F@xxxxxx.mursuky.edu If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3439 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4165 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:10:03 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cheryl Wolverton Subject: Re: Underdraaw MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ugh....just the thought of doing that to the Gens makes me shudder[yes, I am Gen identified] >Well, somebody comes up with the brilliant idea of applying Hayashi's >technology to inducing and training Gens to superproduction, so there will >be excess selyn to run the selyn technology with which the Tecton keeps >out-T Gens happy. The thing is, these Gens do not give transfer to >channels; they do not give transfer at all. They don't even donate to >channels. They are trained from their first "donation" to drain their selyn >directly into selyn batteries. > >All Gen-identified listmembers in chorus: EEUUUWWWWWWWW! GROSS! >And in some cases the eruption of the Endowment in extremely destructive >ways. That is the story of the man Tonyo becomes in his next >incarnation--his underdraw erupts as pyromania and other poltergeist >activity. It's not supernatural; it's selyn power out of conscious control. So...Gens have the endowment too? Not just Channels? [a question that came up at one point somewhere that we weren't sure about] > Cheryl Wolverton This Side of Paradise Aug 98 The Best Christmas Ever Dec 98 A Mother's Love May 99 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1037 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:08:25 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jaye Subject: List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mary Lou - Congrats on the new job at the U. And I hope you have a wonderful time salmon fishing! Sounds fun! (Can we hope for a new story from the trip? Pretty please?) Karen - OUCH, I'm sad to hear about your back. PLease take care of yourself first, foremost, and always. Email and chat and roleplay are secondary to being in minimum pain instead of max pain. Jacqueline - 1. On adding new things to the books... would it be possible to pair each novel with an unpublished short-story set at the same general time frame and dealing with a similar theme? I like the idea of web and email info, but what would REALLY grab me would be an additional short story at the back. (Like the "To Keep the Oath" at the back of... what was it? _The Bloody Sun_?) 2. Restoration of cut scenes, etc. A "director's (author's) cut" version. 3. I'd also like info at the back on your thought processes (and Jean's of course) on originating the books, but that might be something others would not like. Ideas on tarot and astrological stuff would appeal to some and it would also keep others from buying. 4 Cover art: Please at least consider Hannah. Her current stuff she's showing on the web is spectacular. On interior art: it is seldom up to a level of accuracy/pleasingness to add to a book rather than detract from it. And I suspect that interior art that IS pleasing is expensive. 5. I'd pay the "going rate" (who knows what that'll be by the time they come out? They seem to be climbing rapidly) for paper. I don't like trade because they're heavy enough to hurt my hands. I have carpal-tunnel syndrome and even some paperbacks are a pain (you know, those huge Robert Jordan, stuff like that). I might buy the trade not to read but to keep to have it, tho. (I suppose it'd be way too much to ask for a paperback on good, long-lasting paper? I suppose most people woudln't bother to realize that it's better paper and would just see the size and think it's too much.) 6. IMPORTANT POINT: Decent-sized print, even tho it makes it more pages. Some of MZB's novels (Thendara house, I think is one) in paper are so tiny that we with middle-aged eyes have problems with them. I don't remember dislking the typeface in it particularly 10 years ago, but this year, I literally got headaches when I re-read it. 7. I'd absolutely still buy the book even if it were DL'able. Reading on a computer screen is limiting and awkward, and printing out a whole novel would probably use at least a cartrige of ink -- about $25 at local rates, plus paper, plus something to bind it in. Plus printing large amounts is a royal pain taking time and energy and vigilance. 8. Tarot and astrology: I think people who are into it know they can get it elsewhere (including in your tarot books) and those who aren't would be likely to put the novel back on the shelf and pick something with no obvious tie-in. Many people can accept in SF or fantasy concepts that they can't accept in their lives. (which is one reason I think SF is so powerful. It gets ideas in in a separated way where they can kinda grow and bear fruit wtihout being outright rejected.) 9. I think for new readers, price is a consideration. Most new readers I know would choose a less-expensive book, especially in the normal paperback format, without extras at least as a first read, just to see if they even like the ideas/characters/themes. 10. OH --- I agree with Robyn --- PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give us pronunciation guides! It'd take less than a page, I think. At the front of the book, or a footnote on the first term referring the reader to the back for it, so the reader knows it's there. My mind will not abandon SELin, either. It thought that for too long. Just like so many people still say nuke-yu-lar and will for the rest of their lives. Karen - I'm so glad you're getting the water therapy so fast. Bummer that you're off the horse for a month, tho. :/ I hope this flare-up eases off really fast and you don't have any more for a very long time. Jaye orchestra@xxxxxx.com Old friends, they mean much more to me than new friends Cos they can see where you are, and they know where you've been. --Stephen Chapin ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:27:50 -0700 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Cherri Subject: Re: Underdraw In-Reply-To: <004b01bdcb0e$1ee2c280$0964d6d1@xxxxxx.ion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > They are trained from their first "donation" to drain their selyn directly into selyn batteries. Cherri hides Mark from the ones who only want him to void into selyn batteries. PS No! I am NOT Gen identified but this is even gross to the Sime-identified. Cherri AKA Veraik ambrov Liorie Controller, Bender Cove Sime Center. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:30:03 -0500 Reply-To: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List Sender: SIMEGEN-L Discussion List From: Jean Lorrah Subject: OFFTOPIC: Mathematical Analysis of Petrarch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" By Sara Robinson
DALLAS MORNING NEWS
It's a rare moment when mathematics and the poetry of love become one.